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Subject: BATTLE RULES rss

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Pavlos groov
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Could someone please explain the battle rules (I am not sure whether I have understood it correctly) and also how the hand size changes (I've understood that the stacking units/speed/number of cities change with technologies but how does the hand size cards change?) ?
I am really not sure about the battle and it would be good to have some kind of explanation or easy board to remember the steps that need to be taken.
Thank you very much and Happy New Year

meeple
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Henrik Johansson
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Battle hand size is 3
+2 per extra army figure
+1 if you have Fundamentalism as govermment
+3 if defending a city or capital

(quoted from the battle reference card from the expansion)
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Niels K.
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Very helpful (page 5): http://files.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/6g0zblt49x/Civi...

 
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Dmitry Vensko
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Single army figure represents 3 units. Each additional army figure in stack represents 2 more units. (Note also that for every 2 casualties in battle you have to remove an army figure).

City or capital (garrison) represents 6 units.

No matter how big your armies are, you manage your units separately. You may have 0 units with 6 armies - and in case of battle you draw no units. Or you may have 1 army and 10 units - and in case of battle with that army you will draw just 3 units.

After all drawn units played from hand one by one, usually killing enemies in process, every still live unit strength counts. You also add bonuses from barracks/academies and great generals, and possibly city defense. You need to score more than your opponent to win battle.

It is possible to battle (and win or lose) with no casualties, or with no units, or with no survivors.
 
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Ricardo Donoso
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RIBEIRÃO PRETO
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Do a quick search and you will se examples of battles explaining fronts, iron use and everything else you will need already explained carefully to other users.
 
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Pavlos groov
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Thank you guys...

i am starting to feel a bit more confident with the way i understand it.

Just five more questions for clarification, please reply to any of them your can:

1. Player A has 5 cards, Player B has 3 cars. Player B attacks player A. Player A starts a front (call the unit "a1"), player B starts a new front (call it"b1"), player A starts a new front (call it "a2"), player B starts a new front (call it "b2"), player A starts a new front (call it a3), player B starts a new front (call it b3).
Something like that
Front 1: (a1- open)
Front 2: (open- b1)
Front 3: (a2- open)
Front 4: (open- b2)
Front 5: (a3- open)
Front 6: (open- b3)
Then the player A still has 2 more cards to play(call the units a4, a5). He can decide to open two more fronts (Front 7 & Front 8), in which case we count all the units from A and all the units from B, because none died. Is that right?
Or he can decide to attack at two of the fronts (Say Front 2 or Front 4 or Front 6). In which case the battle happens and again we count the survivors. Is that right?

2.Dying: I understand that when one unit (=card) dies, we throw it away and can't use that card again in our pile.
For an ARMY (=flag) to die, we need to think if the player is the final winner or loser of that battle with the several fronts.
If the player is the winner, for any 2 units killed he loses one army (=flag) but he need to remain with at least one flag (so there is a case he might not lose any flag if he only had one flag to start with)
If the player is the loser, he loses all of his flags.
Then the winner also gets the loot.
Is that right?

3. Let's say we have units a1, a2, a3 from player A and units b1, b2, b3 from player B.
Player B attacks.
Player A starts (because it's not a capital).
Front 1.1: a1 (strength 3) vs b1 (strength 5) --> a1 loses, b1 gets 3 wounds
then Player A decides to play again with a2 (strength 3) on Front 1 and hit the b1 player who now has 3 wounds.
Front 1.2: a2 (Strength 3) vs b1 (strength 5 +3 wounds)--> outcome is as follows:
b1 dies because he has collected 6 wounds
a2 ALSO dies because he has collected 5 wounds (people defend with full power rather than calculated with wounds).
Is that right?


4. I understand the case when you might have an army with 10 units, but you can only draw 3 cards randomly. But I didn't understand, what VDmtry said, how come you can have an army figure (=a flag) without having any units. Is this the case when all of his armies/units have died and then he bought an army (=4 production) but hasn't had the time to buy a unit?


5. When I had two flags (=armies) who move together to a battle against another person is this what we consider a "friendly" army? OR is a friendly army an army from one of the allies you might have made in a promise during "trade"? For example at the pc game you can make allies with other players and that alliance is valid for 20 turns. In that pg-game case if someone attacks my ally, he becomes my enemy directly. Is this in the board game what we call a "friendly army"? And if so is the case, why can't we draw those +2 cards from the ally, rather than drawing them from me ?
 
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Dmitry Vensko
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1. Usually units clash one into another, until one player decides that attacking is not useful under circumstances and instead opens new front.

2. Correct.

4. Units and armies live separately until battle. You may lose all 3 starting units in a battle with barbarians and then build new army, still having 0 units. That "empty" army can even attack and win new battles with no units (using just bonuses from barracks and generals as example).

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Pavlos groov
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Thanks Vdimitry, that's really useful and it helps me a lot . What about questions 3 and 5 ?
 
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Dmitry Vensko
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I'm afraid but I didn't understand those. But the following sentence is correct: "people defend with full power rather than calculated with wounds"
 
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Daniel Hammond
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groovakos wrote:
Thanks Vdimitry, that's really useful and it helps me a lot . What about questions 3 and 5 ?


5) friendly is your army only.

3) A few points. Capitals don't matter for play order. Defender always plays first (assuming he has at least 1 unit) unless he defending a WALLED city or capital.

Also it is hard to know whether or not you understand trumping (I am guessing because you never say what type of unit is attacking what type of unit). So if I attack your wounded Inf strength 5 with 3 wounds with my strength 2 Inf we will kill each other. If I attack you with my strength 2 Archer you will die and I won't be hurt (because my damage kills you before you react). If I attack you with my strength 5 cavalry I will die and you will suffer no damage (you kill me before I can hit you). If I attack with my Strength 6 cavalry you will die and I will suffer 5 wounds (you hit me with your full strength, and since I live I attack you back).

Edit:
4) Units represent standard military units. Armies represent military power projection. An army could have no units, but because of your bonuses which I think of as non-basic military capabilities, your ability to achieve military objectives without committing units. So if I have 2 great generals and 3 academies, my bonus of +20 would defeat any single army with highly upgraded units unless those armies also had bonuses.
 
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Keith Schramek
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Ok I'm confused now. When I attack a Village and the Barbarians fight back, they lay down all 3 of their units or do they do 1 and then the Attacker lays one down and they alternate? I read where a Unit got wounded, how does another Unit then attack it? I was under the impression that once a Unit created a Front, the other Player either had to attack that Front or start a new one of their own. I guess what I'm asking is once a Unit takes damage how can more be given if they have killed the Unit that attacked it?

(Head hurting...Must smash...)
 
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Daniel Hammond
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quatsch wrote:
Ok I'm confused now. When I attack a Village and the Barbarians fight back, they lay down all 3 of their units or do they do 1 and then the Attacker lays one down and they alternate? I read where a Unit got wounded, how does another Unit then attack it? I was under the impression that once a Unit created a Front, the other Player either had to attack that Front or start a new one of their own. I guess what I'm asking is once a Unit takes damage how can more be given if they have killed the Unit that attacked it?

(Head hurting...Must smash...)


I play a unit, you play your unit, our units are the same type but yours is stronger. Mine dies yours takes damage equal to the strength of mine. My turn to play, I can play my unit against any of your units down OR start a new front, I pick the wounded unit and I play a unit that trumps it, if your damage + my strength is equal to or greater than your actual full strength then you die.
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Keith Schramek
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So I take it that you lay down a Unit one at a time not I lay all mine then you lay yours( or vice versa).

 
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Daniel Hammond
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quatsch wrote:
So I take it that you lay down a Unit one at a time not I lay all mine then you lay yours( or vice versa).



That is correct alternating units.
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Kevin
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Just want to add further confusion into the mix with a couple of questions which came up on my second play of this great but complex ( or so it seems) game.

Q1 Some of the tech cards allow you to deal damage to a unit. When can these be played in the battle? Is the effect resolved before two units deal damage to one another.

eg my opponent plays a unit strength 3 and i play a unit strength 2 but i have a tech card which allows me to deal 3 damage to a unit. Can i kill his unit before it is able to deal its damage and kill mine.

Q 2 On a similiar note: can I heal a unit that has taken fatal damage. Again some tech cards allow me to heal eg 3 wounds. So if using the example above, my opponent deals 3 damage to my strength 2 unit can i heal it using a tech thus saving it even though it effectivley was at minus 1 health for an instant.

thanks in advance
 
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Daniel Hammond
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chainsaw_ash wrote:
Just want to add further confusion into the mix with a couple of questions which came up on my second play of this great but complex ( or so it seems) game.

Q1 Some of the tech cards allow you to deal damage to a unit. When can these be played in the battle? Is the effect resolved before two units deal damage to one another.

eg my opponent plays a unit strength 3 and i play a unit strength 2 but i have a tech card which allows me to deal 3 damage to a unit. Can i kill his unit before it is able to deal its damage and kill mine.

Q 2 On a similiar note: can I heal a unit that has taken fatal damage. Again some tech cards allow me to heal eg 3 wounds. So if using the example above, my opponent deals 3 damage to my strength 2 unit can i heal it using a tech thus saving it even though it effectivley was at minus 1 health for an instant.

thanks in advance


Combat works like this:
Your turn you can use an effect(s)
Effects fully resolve
You play a unit
Damage is dealt (unless you started a new front)
Unit(s) die
You can use an effect(s)
Your effect(s) fully resolve
Your opponent can use an effect(s)
Your opponent's effect(s) fully resolve
Your opponent plays a unit
Damage is dealt (unless he started a new front)
Unit(s) die
Your opponent can use an effect(s)
Your opponent's effect(s) fully resolve

You can't use a battle ability more than once per battle
You can't use a resource ability more than once per game turn
Metalworking boosts your damage for the unit you are about to play that unit does not get increased health nor does its boost last past inflicting damage as it is being played
There is no way to save a unit that has suffered damage exceeding its health (unless you are Chinese where you can bring one back after the battle is resolved or have a great person card that says otherwise)
Even if you are out of unit cards and your opponent is still playing unit cards you can use effects between his cards or after his cards are played when it is "your turn".

Added: I highly recommend the UFAQ in the files section and the FAQ on the FF website, they are all official rulings.
 
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Brandon Moore

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groovakos wrote:
Thank you guys...

i am starting to feel a bit more confident with the way i understand it.

Just five more questions for clarification, please reply to any of them your can:

1. Player A has 5 cards, Player B has 3 cars. Player B attacks player A. Player A starts a front (call the unit "a1"), player B starts a new front (call it"b1"), player A starts a new front (call it "a2"), player B starts a new front (call it "b2"), player A starts a new front (call it a3), player B starts a new front (call it b3).
Something like that
Front 1: (a1- open)
Front 2: (open- b1)
Front 3: (a2- open)
Front 4: (open- b2)
Front 5: (a3- open)
Front 6: (open- b3)
Then the player A still has 2 more cards to play(call the units a4, a5). He can decide to open two more fronts (Front 7 & Front 8), in which case we count all the units from A and all the units from B, because none died. Is that right?
Or he can decide to attack at two of the fronts (Say Front 2 or Front 4 or Front 6). In which case the battle happens and again we count the survivors. Is that right?

2.Dying: I understand that when one unit (=card) dies, we throw it away and can't use that card again in our pile.
For an ARMY (=flag) to die, we need to think if the player is the final winner or loser of that battle with the several fronts.
If the player is the winner, for any 2 units killed he loses one army (=flag) but he need to remain with at least one flag (so there is a case he might not lose any flag if he only had one flag to start with)
If the player is the loser, he loses all of his flags.
Then the winner also gets the loot.
Is that right?

3. Let's say we have units a1, a2, a3 from player A and units b1, b2, b3 from player B.
Player B attacks.
Player A starts (because it's not a capital).
Front 1.1: a1 (strength 3) vs b1 (strength 5) --> a1 loses, b1 gets 3 wounds
then Player A decides to play again with a2 (strength 3) on Front 1 and hit the b1 player who now has 3 wounds.
Front 1.2: a2 (Strength 3) vs b1 (strength 5 +3 wounds)--> outcome is as follows:
b1 dies because he has collected 6 wounds
a2 ALSO dies because he has collected 5 wounds (people defend with full power rather than calculated with wounds).
Is that right?


4. I understand the case when you might have an army with 10 units, but you can only draw 3 cards randomly. But I didn't understand, what VDmtry said, how come you can have an army figure (=a flag) without having any units. Is this the case when all of his armies/units have died and then he bought an army (=4 production) but hasn't had the time to buy a unit?


5. When I had two flags (=armies) who move together to a battle against another person is this what we consider a "friendly" army? OR is a friendly army an army from one of the allies you might have made in a promise during "trade"? For example at the pc game you can make allies with other players and that alliance is valid for 20 turns. In that pg-game case if someone attacks my ally, he becomes my enemy directly. Is this in the board game what we call a "friendly army"? And if so is the case, why can't we draw those +2 cards from the ally, rather than drawing them from me ?

I don't think this has been pointed out here but the rule book says you can't have more than three fronts. Perhaps I'm wrong but I've always been given to understand that that's three front TOTAL not three per player.
 
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Daniel Hammond
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Sparkster wrote:

I don't think this has been pointed out here but the rule book says you can't have more than three fronts. Perhaps I'm wrong but I've always been given to understand that that's three front TOTAL not three per player.


The rules don't say that. There is no limit to the number of fronts.
 
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Brandon Moore

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dlhammond wrote:
Sparkster wrote:

I don't think this has been pointed out here but the rule book says you can't have more than three fronts. Perhaps I'm wrong but I've always been given to understand that that's three front TOTAL not three per player.


The rules don't say that. There is no limit to the number of fronts.


Huh. Not sure where we thought we saw that. Looks like battle will be run differently in our next match. Thanks.
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Tom Monto
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Here is a somewhat lengthy step-by-step process to resolve battles I have worked out. Hope you find it useful.
I have developed different terms not used in the rule book such as clash, charge (trump), counter-blow and exchange of blows.

Battles in Civilization board game
occur in four types of situations, when an army figure(s) enters a:
A. Gameboard square containing a Village marker
B. Gameboard square (non-city) containing an enemy army figure
C. Gameboard square containing an enemy city centre (with no city wall)
D. Gameboard square containing a walled enemy city centre

A. Gameboard square containing a Village marker (rulebook page 20)
player to attacker's left draws three cards, each different type, all of rank one, and acts as defender as per B. below.
If attacker wins, he gets village marker.
If attacker loses, his army figure(s) and scouts, if any, in the square are eliminated. Surviving units, if any, return to standing army.

B. Gameboard square (non-city, non-village)
army figure moves into square containing enemy army figure and stops
1. Each side composes their Battle Hand
Each side discovers its battle hand maximum size.
3 for first army figure plus 2 for each additional army figure plus 1 if you have fundamentalism
Each side randomly picks out this number of units from their standing army or the
total number of units in their standing army whichever is lesser.

2. Combat Bonus
each side discovers their combat quotient (see page 23 of rulebook)
increased for Barracks (+2), Academy (+4), Great General (+4), City (6), Capital city (+12) and City walls (+4).
The player with the largest quotient gets combat bonus equivalent to the difference between his
combat quotient and the opponent's.

3. Unit-to-unit fighting.
Defender picks one of his units. (best to pick the strongest that will survive an attack or one that will not be trumped by an attacker's unit, if you can guess what he has, or a weak one that will draw out a attacker's unit, which you can weaken and then kill later)

Attacker picks one of his units.
Best to use one that will trump the defender and kill it by inflicting more damage (wounds) than the defending unit can survive. Anyways, try to avoid a clash that is an exchange of blows but kills the opposing unit - early in a battle it is dangerous to get in an exchange of blows that kills the opposing unit, because then you carry your wounds and can be in another clash and an opposing unit could kill the unit fairly easily.
If can't (or don't want to) kill the defending unit, then
- pick a unit that will survive the number of wounds the defending unit will inflict and “face” the defender's unit (this will allow both units to survive the battle)
- or pick any unit and open a new front by placing the unit so that it does not “face” the defender's unit. This is the only thing to do if you only have units that will not survive the damage the defending unit will inflict.

Clash
If a unit is placed “facing” an opposing unit, there is a clash. Three types:
i. charge (trump) and kill or
ii.charge and counter-blow or
iii. an exchange of blows.

i. charge (trump) and kill
If a unit has trump over the opposing card, it inflicts its damage on the opposing unit. If the unit that is charged dies, it is removed and inflicts no damage on the attacker.

ii. charge and counter-blow
If a unit has trump over the opposing unit, it inflicts its damage on the opposing unit. If the unit survives, it inflicts its damage on the trump card. (If the damage is more than the trump card can withstand, probably don't do this. A trump that does not kill is no better than an exchange of blows, and an exchange of blows you cannot survive is only good if you can finish off the weakened unit later.)

iii. an exchange of blows.
Neither card has trump, so both units sustain damage meted out by the opposing card. If one or the other or both cannot survive that damage, they are killed and removed.

Defender picks another of his units if has another.
He puts it down “facing” an attacker's unit that has no defender facing it, or opens a new front.
If he puts it down facing an opposing unit, there is a clash (see above)
He cannot place it “facing” an opposing unit that already has a unit facing it.

Attacker and defender take turns placing down the units in their battle hands until all the units there are placed, either producing new clashes or new fronts.

the players resolve the battle when all the units in the battle hands are placed and the last clash, if any, is resolved.
each player adds up the combat points on each of his surviving units, and the player with the combat bonus adds that in.
The highest total wins (defender wins on a tie).
(thus, a battle can be won without any units by using the combat bonus.)
Surviving units, if any, are returned to the players' standing armies.
The winner loses one army figure for each two units of his that were killed but always is left with at least one army figure.
The loser loses all his army figures and scouts, if any, on that square.
LOOT.... Also winner steals:
three trade points, three culture tokens, or any resource from the loser.

C. Gameboard square containing an enemy city centre (with no city wall)
same as for B. above except that
City defender cannot use additional army figures to enlarge battle hand size but does add 3 to its battle hand size, so will have maximum battle hand size of 6 (or 7 with fundamentalism).
If attacker wins, the city is destroyed, and...
LOOT attacker gets tech that he does not have if can put it in his tech pyramid, or one of the defender's culture event card(s), or two resources from the defender.
(If the successful attack was on a capital city, the game is over - the winner of the battle is the winner of the game.)

D. Gameboard square containing a walled enemy city centre
same as for C. above except that attacker must put down first unit.
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Peter
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Just One Short question.

Defender has the ability to stop his movement on waterfields (through developement).
Attacker has not this ability.

Can defender be attacked, if he stand on a waterfield?

So long
Kissekillskoeter
 
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RoyalRook
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kissekillskoeter wrote:
Just One Short question.

Defender has the ability to stop his movement on waterfields (through developement).
Attacker has not this ability.

Can defender be attacked, if he stand on a waterfield?

So long
Kissekillskoeter


No.
 
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robb wells
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I would like your opinion on the following question please:

I can use of a resource ability once per turn , for example in my movement phase I use metal working in a battle I initiate) - but can I use it during the next person's movement phase if he attacks me?



here is a more detailed description of this question below;

assume it is my game turn ( so I am first in each phase - start, trade, CM, move, research) , and all the players have just finished CM in sequence so I start my movement ( to be followed sequentially by the other players after I have finished moving)

I initiate a battle and use my metal working ability ( by using iron) and I use biology during the battle and finally the battle is resolved via combat bonus

I then initiate a second battle ( eg move a second army) - I cant play metal working (can be used only once per game turn) but I can play biology ( which is not resource based ability and can be used in different battles)

so I end my movement and the next player starts his movement....if he attacks one of my armies I can use biology but can I use metal working?

thanks rob
 
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Master Jaz
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Once per turn.
Any turn has 5 phases:
"Start of Turn"..."Trade"..."CM"..."Movement"..."Research"

You can spend iron on a card once per turn.
No second use allowed in the same turn.





 
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