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Subject: speciation rant rss

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Bradley Nelson
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I do not understand the speciation rule. It seems to me that species derive from already existing species. In fact I know this since my degree is in evolutionary biology. It doesn't make since that you can just pop in new species on the other side of earth far away from your existing species. It takes migration pretty much out of the game. Why migrate when you can just pop in anywhere you have a matching element? The rule should be that you have to create new species inside and adjacent to a tile that you already occupy and have a matching element.
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Joe
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If you could not speciate anywhere you liked on the board the board positions would be much more static. It could be hard to get your species from one side of the board to the other if the elements between are not conducive to your animal. What if all your cubes are removed from the board, have you gone "extinct" and are completely eliminated from the game?

Short answer: it's a game, not a simulation.
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Patrick Riley
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1) Don't look at the game as a simulation. It will drive you batty. After all, how do animals control where glaciers go?

2) The answer, which was addressed somewhere on these forums but I can't find the link, is that there are always species of every order in every hex, but only a few "rise up" in population to be noteworthy (worthy of points and in contention for domination).
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Mark Buetow
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cuneve wrote:
It seems to me that species derive from already existing species. In fact I know this since my degree is in evolutionary biology.


Maybe you should have picked up a minor in Gameology.
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Chris Berger
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If you have a major in evolutionary biology, then I'm sure you can think of more than a few examples of species that seemingly evolved in a vacuum - where there is no record of any similar species previously existing in the surrounding areas. Obviously, it didn't spontaneously pop into existence, but no one knows exactly how it got there.
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Chadwik
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Bradley, I've already explained in other threads how every animal is considered to have species living on every tile at all times. Your species *cubes* are specifically representing where your species are *flourishing*.
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Bradley Nelson
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No one has addressed my point that if you are able to create species almost any where, why migrate? It sort of takes that action out of the game. I like Patrick's explanation of why species are able to pop up.
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David Lanphear
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Let's say you want to get some of your animal onto a tile but all the speciate actions for elements that border that tile have been taken by someone else. The migration action (multiple actions if more than one hex away) could then be used to get your species there.

Been there, done that.
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Mark Kelsey
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cuneve wrote:
No one has addressed my point that if you are able to create species almost any where, why migrate? It sort of takes that action out of the game. I like Patrick's explanation of why species are able to pop up.


Migration is for saving your species once they're on the map. If I knew my juicy wetlands was going to get paved over by glaciers very soon, Migration would be my way to save them.
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Andrew J
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cuneve wrote:
No one has addressed my point that if you are able to create species almost any where, why migrate? It sort of takes that action out of the game. I like Patrick's explanation of why species are able to pop up.


You only have a limited number of cubes and it's quite easy to run out through reckless speciation if you're not careful. Sometimes it's better instead to redistribute species on the board in response to the changing environment (to take advantage of newly favourable areas or move away from newly unfavourable areas).
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Jack Smith
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Don't migrate then. You will then discover for yourself why it may be used. No one is forcing you to take that action.

Anyway it is a game not a simulation. Also over the period it represents it is more about a species reaction to ecological change than evolution.

To take it further it is more about that stupid concept of Intelligent Design anyway as the players control what happens to a large extent. Instead of 'goddidit' we have 'playersdidit'. I'm looking forward to the Noah's Arc expansion.
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Simon Pearson
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Noah's "Arc"???

Why not Noah's Curving Trajectory?

"Ark" surely.

The Fundy Creationists will be apoplectic.

Still the thought of this expansion really made me laugh, thanks Jack.

 
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Jack Smith
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spear814 wrote:
Noah's "Arc"??? :D

Why not Noah's Curving Trajectory?

"Ark" surely.

The Fundy Creationists will be apoplectic.

Still the thought of this expansion really made me laugh, thanks Jack.



Oops, I think my Religious Education may have been a bit lacking...
 
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Jason Hinchliffe
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cuneve wrote:
No one has addressed my point that if you are able to create species almost any where, why migrate? It sort of takes that action out of the game. I like Patrick's explanation of why species are able to pop up.


Because of a few reasons:

1 - You have a limited number of cubes, so you don't want to deplete your gene pool too quickly, as there are myriad ways for them to get obliterated.

2 - You only need more cubes in an area than your opponent to score the highest point benefit. So stacking up a large number of cubes in one area is a surefire way to get targeted by catastrophe, or glaciation or mass exodus or multiple competition actions etc. So it's better to spread out, migration allows for that.

3 - Survival. Getting the card requires you having species on Tundra. Speciation will give you a maximum of 1 more cube per tundra tile, whereas migration can let you move of a whole bunch of cubes onto tundra and steal the card.

4 - Your cubes are in a place where they are about to go extinct. This happened in our kost recent game. I noticed the element I was on was about to get wastelanded! I had 6 cubes on that hex, so I used migration to get them the hell out of there.

There are more reasons, but those are off the top of my head. Migration is a great action, and very important for establishing position on the board.
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Daniel Corban
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cuneve wrote:
I do not understand the speciation rule. It seems to me that species derive from already existing species. In fact I know this since my degree is in evolutionary biology. It doesn't make since that you can just pop in new species on the other side of earth far away from your existing species. It takes migration pretty much out of the game. Why migrate when you can just pop in anywhere you have a matching element? The rule should be that you have to create new species inside and adjacent to a tile that you already occupy and have a matching element.

I see no one has mentioned that you may be playing the game incorrectly. I wouldn't have suspected this myself until I witnessed a game group doing this exact thing.

When you speciate, you choose a single element disc on the board and add cubes on the tiles adjacent to that single disc. What you may be doing is adding cubes adjacent to every element disc of the selected type. In this instance, yes, migration would significantly lose value.
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
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In the games that I've played, Speciate has usually been more valuable in the early game, and Migrate more important in the late game. Often in the last 2 turns every Migrate slot is filled as people jostle around for valuable majority and second-place scores.

There are also mid-game problems where your cubes have to migrate or die.
 
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Malacandra wrote:
cuneve wrote:
It seems to me that species derive from already existing species. In fact I know this since my degree is in evolutionary biology.


Maybe you should have picked up a minor in Gameology.


You're damn lucky I was not drinking anything when I read that...laugh
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Robert Stewart
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Morganza wrote:
In the games that I've played, Speciate has usually been more valuable in the early game, and Migrate more important in the late game. Often in the last 2 turns every Migrate slot is filled as people jostle around for valuable majority and second-place scores.

There are also mid-game problems where your cubes have to migrate or die.


It's a solid strategy to hold off on speciation until the last turn or two, forgoing early points to be able to flood strategic tiles from your reserves.
 
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Stephen Stewart
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Chad Jensen wrote:
Bradley, I've already explained in other threads how every animal is considered to have species living on every tile at all times. Your species *cubes* are specifically representing where your species are *flourishing*.



Populations of your animal exist, but not in competitive numbers.

I too have a degree in Evolutionary Biology. Think Australia, where the introduced

*Only 24 rabbits were originally introduced into Australia for the purposes of hunting, giving a new meaning
to the saying "breeding like rabbits"!

• Nineteen species of native small mammals have become extinct since Europeans introduced the cat, fox and rabbit into Australia.
 
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Stephen Stewart
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cuneve wrote:
I do not understand the speciation rule. It seems to me that species derive from already existing species. In fact I know this since my degree is in evolutionary biology. It doesn't make since that you can just pop in new species on the other side of earth far away from your existing species. .


Having a degree in Evolutionary Biology, you should realize the time scale for the game...Glaciation!!!!! How long did it take the glaciers to roll over the land?? A LONG TIME!!

Your speciation event during the game can mean a myriad of occurrences.

1) SMALL populations of your species-a cube obviously means more specific animals in one species than the other. 50,000 mammals needs more of the Food chain beneath them....Each aardvark probably eats thousands of INSECTS a day... - migrate to the location over hundreds of years travel...

2) Your animals are there, yet are not in the right quantity to make an impact on the ecology of the area. Take examples where one animal was relocated to another area where there were no natural predators...THEIR POPULATIONS EXPLODED!!

3) It's a game...things happen...to balance it out.
 
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