Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
22 Posts

Mage Knight Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: What is a safe place? and what can force a withdrawal rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Philip
Canada
Moncton
New Brunswick
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
in the rule book, page 9. End of the Turn part 2 Forced withdrawal

You must end your turn on a safe space, A safe space is any space that would be accessible under normal conditions, with no other Hero present.

Here's what brought the discussion
Player_A went to fight 2 monster at a spawning grounds.
He kills 1 monster, the other monster is alive.

Player_B say you're not on a safe place you have to withdraw.

So we look up the rules on page 8. Combat Outcomes where it says that only fortified place forces a withdrawal.

So basically is ending your turn on an non-cleared spawning ground legit?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm still learning the game myself, but I think something else that could qualify (though you have more control over it) is if you use the card that allows you to move over lakes, but then end your move on a lake.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You only withdraw from a fortified site, meaning keep, mage tower, or city.

Safe place just means a space you are allowed to move onto without fighting.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Conradie
Canada
Rossland
BC
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Being "on top of" a Spawning Ground is a safe place (any Adventure site actually). Remember that you have to decide to actually "go underground" into the Spawning Grounds as your action to fight the creatures.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Tesser
United States
Miami
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Also you can move through other players. If you were forced to retreat you cannot end on a space with another player even though you went through them during the initial mOve
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Linneman
Canada
Vancouver
BC
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
curtc wrote:
You only withdraw from a fortified site, meaning keep, mage tower, or city.

Safe place just means a space you are allowed to move onto without fighting.


So does this mean if you attack a keep and fail to defeat the defender, you have to "withdraw" (and take a wound)? Could this cause you to discard your hand if it is the Xth wound you took this turn, where X is your hand limit? I was never sure of this because somewhere in the rules it says "if you fail to defeat the defender, move back to the space you entered from." I didn't think this counted as a "withdrawal to a safe space."

Also, the spell that lets you move and "end on a safe space" (Underground Travel, I think), that cannot be used to attack a keep, correct?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Grogan
United Kingdom
Cullompton
Devon
flag msg tools
designer
Check out all my instructional How to Play videos at youtube.com/GamingRulesVideos
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
QBert80 wrote:
curtc wrote:
You only withdraw from a fortified site, meaning keep, mage tower, or city.

Safe place just means a space you are allowed to move onto without fighting.


So does this mean if you attack a keep and fail to defeat the defender, you have to "withdraw" (and take a wound)?


You have to withdraw, yes. But this is not FORCED WITHDRAWL, you just return to the space you came from. It is in the rules - somewhere

And yes, underground travel cannot be used to assault a keep.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Paul - so is ending your move on a lake OK? Or would that also not count as a "safe space"?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Grogan
United Kingdom
Cullompton
Devon
flag msg tools
designer
Check out all my instructional How to Play videos at youtube.com/GamingRulesVideos
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:
Paul - so is ending your move on a lake OK? Or would that also not count as a "safe space"?


That is actually still on my list of outstanding questions I keep forgettings to ask Vlaada on Skype. However, I think he's already ruled on another thread that it is not a safe space (i.e you cannot normally move onto it).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Hurst
United States
Gastonia
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
PaulGrogan wrote:
QBert80 wrote:
curtc wrote:
You only withdraw from a fortified site, meaning keep, mage tower, or city.

Safe place just means a space you are allowed to move onto without fighting.


So does this mean if you attack a keep and fail to defeat the defender, you have to "withdraw" (and take a wound)?


You have to withdraw, yes. But this is not FORCED WITHDRAWL, you just return to the space you came from. It is in the rules - somewhere


Correct, and I nearly misread the following, so it bears restating:

Per Combat Outcomes, pg 8, 3d:
"If you failed to defeat all the defnders of a fortified site, you have to withdraw back to the space you were attacking from. If it is not a safe place, Forced withdrawal rules apply."

That second sentence was something I had misread, thinking it referenced the original fortified site when it is actually talking about the space you withdrew into. So, I suggest you don't attack from a fortified site into another adjacent fortified site!

(and how the heck can that happen!?)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Carpenter
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tarheel wrote:
Per Combat Outcomes, pg 8, 3d:
"If you failed to defeat all the defnders of a fortified site, you have to withdraw back to the space you were attacking from. If it is not a safe place, Forced withdrawal rules apply."

I guess I'm still a little confused by this. How is possible to attack from an unsafe place? What would be an example of this rule having any effect? Something crazy with spells?

tarheel wrote:
So, I suggest you don't attack from a fortified site into another adjacent fortified site!

But how can you do that? If you move onto a keep that you don't control, you fight, and can't fight another keep that turn. If you fight from a keep that you control, surely that it is a safe place to retreat to, no?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Yost
United States
Bothell
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd say the rule is primarily there to take care of the edge cases that could lead to illegal board position. crazy things with spells, yes, like walking over lakes. I think you could also do it via underground attack, and maybe via a failed cooperative city assault where both players came in through the same entrance squares. This answer from Vlaada is a more canonical answer: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/8027196#8027196
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Philip
Canada
Moncton
New Brunswick
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
curtc wrote:
tarheel wrote:
Per Combat Outcomes, pg 8, 3d:
"If you failed to defeat all the defnders of a fortified site, you have to withdraw back to the space you were attacking from. If it is not a safe place, Forced withdrawal rules apply."

I guess I'm still a little confused by this. How is possible to attack from an unsafe place? What would be an example of this rule having any effect? Something crazy with spells?


I would assume this would apply, when:
Player_A want to assault a keep. But he has to move twice.. once over a tile where Player_B is resting and a 2nd time to actually assault the keep.

Player_A fails his assault and has to withdraw on top of Player_B, which is not save place. Force withdrawal rules then apply.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Grogan
United Kingdom
Cullompton
Devon
flag msg tools
designer
Check out all my instructional How to Play videos at youtube.com/GamingRulesVideos
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
morni wrote:
Player_A fails his assault and has to withdraw on top of Player_B, which is not save place. Force withdrawal rules then apply.


Correct. It can also happen without another player being present. I use songs of wind to move across a lake and assault a keep. Silly me, I fail, so I move back to the lake, which isnt safe because of the sharks. So, I take a wound (bite to the leg) and then are forced to withdraw to the last safe space I was at before I embarked upon this heroic noble 'rush across a lake and into a keep and then back' adventure.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
am 19228
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mb
I just got this game and was playing it with some new people, and this issue came up:

Player A ended his turn on the edge of a tile without exploring the next tile.

Player B wanted to explore the next tile, but had to move into player A's space in order to do it. He asked me if he could move onto player A's space, explore the next tile, then move onto the next tile. I told him "yes".

The next tile was revealed and it was full of forests and mountains and Player B could not move another space, he was stuck on Player A's space. I told him he had to make a forced withdrawal back to his previous spot.

Did we do this correctly?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Grogan
United Kingdom
Cullompton
Devon
flag msg tools
designer
Check out all my instructional How to Play videos at youtube.com/GamingRulesVideos
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
am19228 wrote:

Did we do this correctly?


Yes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christian
France
Lyon
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Excuse me to go on with this topic but there is still something confusing me.
Your discussion seems to imply that a keep or tower or city is not a safe space. But the rule says (p. 9 End of the turn, 2): "a safe space is any space that would be accessible under normal conditions, with no other hero present."
Under normal conditions you can move to a keep for instance, why would it be considered not a safe space?
(I understand that somehow you cannot end your turn in an unconquered keep, but this is addressed by the combat rules).
Or is the rule meant to read "a safe space is any space that would be accessible under normal conditions without triggering an assault, with no other hero present." or something like that?

Sorry if that looks obvious to you but there's something I don't get here...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kaiwen Zhang
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
Welcome to Zombo.com!
badge
Art of life
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kris wrote:
Excuse me to go on with this topic but there is still something confusing me.
Your discussion seems to imply that a keep or tower or city is not a safe space. But the rule says (p. 9 End of the turn, 2): "a safe space is any space that would be accessible under normal conditions, with no other hero present."
Under normal conditions you can move to a keep for instance, why would it be considered not a safe space?
(I understand that somehow you cannot end your turn in an unconquered keep, but this is addressed by the combat rules).
Or is the rule meant to read "a safe space is any space that would be accessible under normal conditions without triggering an assault, with no other hero present." or something like that?

Sorry if that looks obvious to you but there's something I don't get here...


if you fail to conquer a fortified site, you must withdraw, because you can only end your turn on a fortified site if there are no monsters present there.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christian
France
Lyon
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
johncraven wrote:
if you fail to conquer a fortified site, you must withdraw, because you can only end your turn on a fortified site if there are no monsters present there.

Yes, I understand this, it's in the combat rules, it's the other part which annoys me
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tonny Søndergaard
Denmark
Kgs. Lyngby
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kris wrote:

Or is the rule meant to read "a safe space is any space that would be accessible under normal conditions without triggering an assault, with no other hero present." or something like that?

Sorry if that looks obvious to you but there's something I don't get here...


As a new player I'm still confused about this, but this is the exact way I have chosen to interpret it. I still haven't found any clear verification of it though...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Magnesi
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
page 6, rulebook wrote:
A space is considered to be a safe space if:
• It is accessible under normal conditions (i.e. if no special effects apply).
It is not an unconquered fortied site, or a keep owned by an opponent.
• It does not contain another hero, except for sites that allow more heroes (portal, conquered city).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tonny Søndergaard
Denmark
Kgs. Lyngby
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My ignorance thanks you blush
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.