Jimmy CHAN
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Tseung Kwan O
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If I've the 1st edition, is there any reason to have the 2nd edition?
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Bill Holmes
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I was wondering the same exact thing!
 
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uwe eickert
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Hi guys,
I will post some pictures to the pictures area in a few minutes. There is no need to purchase the second edition. The first edition is fine if you download the 2nd edition rules, which will be free on our website. Remember, we are publishing the 2nd Edition because we have been out of stock of the 1st edition for over a year! And why not update the game to our current standards?

The 2nd Edition includes:
- New 3D map boards with incredible detail.

- New counter art (similar to those that we gave for free in PoH).

- Expanded firefight book, that will include all of the online firefights, plus a set of campaign firefights. These added firefights will include the 8 new units included in the game. We only added the new units because the new box format has more counters in the game.

- A campaign overview and map showing where every firefight is located. We expanded the historical section of each firefight, similar to what we did in Price of Honour.

- Updated action card graphics.

- New rulebook with the 2nd Edition rules as shipped with Price of Honour. This book utilizes the programmed instruction layout, not the reference layout.

We are discounting the game for 2 weeks for those that want the new map boards. Instead of selling them separately for $40, we are offering the game for $55 instead of $80. Pre-orders will also include a free goody counter sheet of units, which will be available separately for $10.

This counter sheet includes:
German and Soviet wreck counters that are drawn blindly and can effect the battlefield, German Pz IV F1, StuG IIIB, Marder IID, Pz II Flamingo (flamethrower tank), Sdkfz 221 Pz41, Panhard 178(f), Sdkfz 7/2, Borgward IV, Motorcycle units, Soviet T-34 57, BT-7A, BT-2, T-26E, T-60 m41, Matilda II, khTZ-16 (Yup, can you believe it! ), Tank HN (another doozy), Conscript Infantry, Mine Dogs! (whose tanks will they run for!?), Rumanian R-2 and R-1 tanks, Rumanian Infantry, Rumanian HMG, Rumanian 37mm Bofors.
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Alex Grant
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Will there be any firefights that utilise the free goody counter sheet?
Will the swamp map board be updated with the new graphic style?
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Robert Zimmer
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citilogic wrote:
If I've the 1st edition, is there any reason to have the 2nd edition?


I plan on giving my First addition to my brother and I already bought the 2nd edition for myself. You could give your first edition away in hopes of "hooking" someone else???
 
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Robert Zimmer
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alexgrant wrote:
Will there be any firefights that utilise the free goody counter sheet?
Will the swamp map board be updated with the new graphic style?


-GOOD Question! What about the Swamp map board???
 
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Wojciech Pawlus
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Second. I don't suppose you can afford having a gap in quality of the maps in number 6
I sincerly regret being a 1st edition owner, but I guess in 5 years will have all the AG products in second editions
 
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Lukasz Biernat
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Quote:

This counter sheet includes:
German and Soviet wreck counters that are drawn blindly and can effect the battlefield, German Pz IV F1, StuG IIIB, Marder IID, Pz II Flamingo (flamethrower tank), Sdkfz 221 Pz41, Panhard 178(f), Sdkfz 7/2, Borgward IV, Motorcycle units, Soviet T-34 57, BT-7A, BT-2, T-26E, T-60 m41, Matilda II, khTZ-16 (Yup, can you believe it! ), Tank HN (another doozy), Conscript Infantry, Mine Dogs! (whose tanks will they run for!?), Rumanian R-2 and R-1 tanks, Rumanian Infantry, Rumanian HMG, Rumanian 37mm Bofors.


I guess that's the same countersheet that was presented in SoS thread?

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uwe eickert
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We changed the mix quite a bit. The counter sheet that you see there a double counter sheet. We will be offering the right hand side sheet with the AtB 2nd Edition pre-orders. The picture shown is outdated, but does include many of the units that will be offered.

The marsh map was not included in the original game and will not be included in this game. None of the original scenarios reference map 6.

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uwe eickert
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alexgrant wrote:
Will there be any firefights that utilise the free goody counter sheet?
Will the swamp map board be updated with the new graphic style?

Pavlos is working on a system to allow players to create firefights online. But this is very involved, so I have no time frame. Anyone with experience in this area, please contact us with advice!
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Pavlos Germidis
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uweeickert wrote:
We changed the mix quite a bit. The counter sheet that you see there a double counter sheet. We will be offering the right hand side sheet with the AtB 2nd Edition pre-orders. The picture shown is outdated, but does include many of the units that will be offered.

[...]



Here is a more up-to-date version of the bonus (half-)sheet included in AtB v2.




Below is a short unit description:
Pz IVf1 7.5cm L24 – Mid41-43
The last short barreled version of the Pz IV, it featured increased frontal armor. It was produced until march 1942.

StuG IIIb 7.5cm L24 – early40-43
The Sturmgeschütz III assault gun was used in a direct-fire support role for infantry divisions. It was sturdy and low.

Marder IID 7,62cm L51 -early42-44
This tank-destroyer was based on the PzIID on which was installed a captured Soviet 7,62cm gun firing german ammo.

PzII Flamingo flamethrower – 1941
This modified PzIID had two remotely-controlled flamethrower turrets in front. Lightly armored, it was quite vulnerable.

Sdkfz 221 Pz41 2.8 cm sPzB 41 – early42-45
The Sdkfz 221 scout car was from 1942 up-armored and had a heavy anti-tank rifle installed in its turret.

Panhard 178(f) 25 mm SA35 – mid41-42
The Germans used more than 170 captured French Panhard scout cards during Barbarossa. They fired AP ammo only.

SdKfz 7/1 20mm Flakvierling 38 – mid40-45
Used to protect armored units from low-flying aircraft, this quadruple-20mm armed halftrack could also provide devastating ground support fire.

Borgward IV – mid42-44
Radio-controlled explosives-carrier. Its releasable 500kg payload was designed to destroy bunkers and clear mines.

Motorcycles – 39-45
The Germans made heavy use of motorcycle troops. Swift Zundapp or BMW sidecars performed reconnaissance work everywhere.

T-34 57 57mmL73 ZiS4 – 1941
A few T-34 where fitted with the 57mm gun. Although it performed better vs tanks, it was no good against soft targets.

BT-7A 76,2mm L16.5 – 36-41
150 or so BT-7 tanks where armed with the KT-28 short-barreled 76,2mm gun. Good against soft targets only.

BT-2 37mm L45 – 32-41
Forerunner of all the BT-series, the worn-out BT-2s were armed with either twin MGs or as in here with a 37mm gun.

T-26E 45mm L46 – early40-41
The uparmored ekranirovanny (screened) T-26 was a response to the Finnish AT guns. More where available in 1941.

T-60m41 20mm L62.2 – late41-45
Replacing the T-38, this light tank was built in great numbers. It was armed with a ground-version of the SchVak aircraft gun.

Matilda II 40mm L50 – late41-44
Lend-lease British tank.The Matilda was slow and armed with the AP-only 2pdr. It was not liked by the troops.

KhTZ-16 45mm L46 – 1941-42
This improvised armored tractor, based on the STZ-3, fought mostly around Kharkov and Stalingrad.

Танк НИ – 1941
The Ni tank -or Odessa or Terror Tank- was an improvised light tank based on the STZ-5 tractor. Armed with MGs.

Conscripts
Many soviet infantry units where made up of poorly trained and completely under-armed troops. Many men had no guns.

Anti-tank Dogs – 1941-44
The soviets trained dogs to hide under tanks and thus detonate the explosive device on their back. At most unefficient.

R-2 37.2mm vz34 – 1941-1945
Basically a Czech Skoda LT vz.35, the R2 fought hard and soldiered on, completely outclassed, until the end of the war.

R-1 – 1941-42
This MG-armed tankette equipped the mechanised reconnaissance squadrons of the Romanian cavalry brigades.

37mm Bofors AT gun 37mmL37 – 1941-1945
Swedish-designed AT guns, effective during early war fighting, but obsolete when heavier tanks appeared on the field.

Schwarzlose 07/12 HMG
An Austro-Hungarian machinegun of WW1 vintage, the 8mm Schwarzlose was a robust and reliable weapon.

Infantry '41 Squad – 1941-1945
10 men armed with the ZB model 1924 rifle and a ZB model 1930 light machine-gun.



This, in association with the extra units included in the AtB v2 sheet itself, should dramatically expand the scope of possible scenarios. For now it is possible to design or play firefights that take place from Northern Finland to Leningrad, Moscow, Kiev, Kharkov, Kishinev, Odessa, even Sevastopol in early 1942!
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Jesse LeBreton
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Kingsford
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I may or may not play with wrecks. I suppose it depends on my opponents tastes. But here is my initial thoughts after looking at the seven choices we are given. I see 2 of them have no DM bonus. I personally would never use these ones because if they don't modify the battle field in any way, then why put them on the board, it would only clutter things. Another point about these ones in particular that I need to point out is that since one is not even burning, and the other barely is, they would actually make ideal cover for squads since they could get in close. Remember that vehicles by default give a +1DM to foot already. Why would the one here that perhaps had its track destroyed no longer provide the +1DM? It kind of defeats the purpose of leaving vehicles on the battlefield after they are no longer combat worthy does it not?

Due to my argument above we would be left with 2 different types of wrecks instead of 3. The 0 DM one being dropped because it's superfluous. It's great that there is 8 slots available for the wrecks. 4 for the Axis and 4 for the Allies. The way I would further break it down would be to have 2 levels of wreck types. Like so.

Axis and Allies would both have these
2 burning and smoking ones that would grant +1DM smoke type coverage.
2 plain old wrecks with no smoke and fire, or only a tiny fire on it, that grants +1DM as regular vehicle cover per standard rules.

The burning and smoking ones would logically downgrade the following round. You would flip them over to the unburning side and LOS would no longer be blocked. Come to think of it having a flip side doubles the number of choices. So then we could have 2 Axis tanks and 2 Axis light vehicles like halftracks. Same for Russia. I notice there is only one halftrack on the sheet now. But if you consider my idea we would get 4 in total. 2 Axis and 2 Russian.

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uwe eickert
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Jesse,
The wrecks are two sided. One for the Germans and one for the Soviets. These counters are mainly for gamers who like to see the tide of battle and how it played out. That includes me. I love looking at a game and seeing wrecks littered about. It retells the story.

So, a wreck may not influence the battlefield, but it makes me feel all warm inside.
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Jesse LeBreton
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Oh and another idea I wanted to add. Has any type of mechanic been proposed yet to determine the severity of the wreck type to place. One could keep it simple and have none at all which would mean that all wrecks are placed with the blocked LOS side up first then downgraded to a regular +1DM the following round. Or we could have an optional rule that had a player roll to determine if the vehicle goes up in fire and smoke. Something like this
Roll D6
1-4 place wreck counter on downgraded side
5-6 place wreck counter on the burning and smoking side

Or whatever players what to invent. It's a pretty simple house rule to come up with.
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Jesse LeBreton
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uweeickert wrote:
Jesse,
The wrecks are two sided. One for the Germans and one for the Soviets. These counters are mainly for gamers who like to see the tide of battle and how it played out. That includes me. I love looking at a game and seeing wrecks littered about. It retells the story.

So, a wreck may not influence the battlefield, but it makes me feel all warm inside.


Yep I gather it is for seeing the story and having a history left on the field to see.

If one side is for the Germans and the other side is for the Soviets then my idea won't work at all. What I proposed would grant you the same feel you want to have, but is much more functional. It would work much better to have the chit be fully German or Russian and have the wrecks work as I described above. Similar to how a smoke chit works now with 2 sides.
 
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uwe eickert
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Battles are not that long. Usually only 25 minutes in game time.
When a tank is destroyed, the player randomly pulls a wreck counter and places it. Seems simple. I just do not want to add a complicated mechanism here. Again, it is just some chrome. I also wanted to add casualty markers that would affect other living units, but got voted down. With good reason.
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Jesse LeBreton
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I like it super simple as well. And the way you described it will work fine. Some may like to see the LOS blocking wreck downgrade over time to just the +1 and that would be easy to swap out.

However, what is up with the tanks without the +1DM cover? A non-burning tank makes a perfect defense wall. A wildly burning one does not because you couldn't get close to it. Yet on one of those in the pic there is a +1DM. I think the logic is backward here. The badly burning ones should not give a +1DM and the plain old broken one should give it.
 
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uwe eickert
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We discussed this at length and found that targets like tanks actually became focus points for mortar and MG fire. Units were often better off taking other cover. Also, the tank may be in a bad defensive position. That is why we modeled some wrecks with no defensive modifier.

But, we will be offering 2 sheets for $10 and 3 for $13, I believe. This will allow players to form their own house rules if they so opt.
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Brian Sherry
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Am I crazy or wasn't there going to be a T-35 somewhere?
 
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uwe eickert
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The final counter mix was up to Pavlos and we rearranged some tanks. Pavlos?
 
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Lukasz Biernat
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that's the old AtB bonus countersheet, T-35 is definitely there.
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Brian Sherry
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Sorry, how does (did?) one get a hold of that sheet?
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Lukasz Biernat
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From what Pavlos wrote earlier, the counters I posted above were supposed to be an integral part of AtB v2 release. And that means that new firefights should use those too. You can even see SOMUA S35 captured tank on the preview pictures they posted on facebook and academy games site.

From what I understand, the mix of the counters changed, so we're waiting for Pavlos to confirm that.
 
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Pavlos Germidis
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Lukasz,

What you are showing here are the bonus units included in the new version of AtB. We had extra counter space so we decided to add new units to the initial mix. We looked for units that should and could have been included in the initial game but had to be dropped for space reasons.

This is not to be confused with the extra-counter sheet that you can buy separately.

The 1st you can get only with the 2nd version of AtB, the 2nd you can get anyhow.
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Scott Key
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Thanks. There seems to be confusion about this on a couple of threads. And good news too!
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