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Subject: "After all, we're not murderers, in spite of what this undertaker thinks." rss

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Bob Wilson
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Take a look at the $5 bill tokens in the game... Don Corleone was a lot older than we all thought. President Corleone I mean.

HINT: It's definitely drawn after Marlon Brando.
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Glauco Micsik Roberti
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So Marlon Brando was also older than we all thought (even though he was obviously a zombie).
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Bob Wilson
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berserkr wrote:
So Marlon Brando was also older than we all thought (even though he was obviously a zombie).


I bought this game this week and played this last night at X9 Games open-gaming night. I think it's got great potential, providing you are playing with a group of people who have all played at least once. Last night's session was a mixed bag.

Firstly, no one was enthusiastic to play even before we started, which dampened the experience some. No one was willing to fight a lot, except me. For most of the game, I was the only one to choose to fight, and the only one with any dead cowboys. Three of them to be exact. In a game in which about 1/3 of the rules involve gunfights, I think the lack of them in our session skewed things significantly.

Also, this is a game that might benefit from a little "deck structuring" during set-up, in this case regarding the face-down draw stracks for the buildings. A good tweak in all likelihood is to make sure the 2nd Saloon and the Hotel enter the game by at least the mid-way point... it these two important buildings don't come out until the end, the whole game can be skewed toward one player, which it was (Garrett) who won with a score of 23 vs. 12,11,8 for the others. The 2nd Saloon didn't enter the game until the last turn and the Hotel never entered the game in our session.

I don't think the game is broken in any way, but I'm starting to feel it could really use a tweak to the building deck during set-up and maybe a rule that a player's cowboy can only enter play by starting a fight.

I think it's a really cool little game and it looks great on the table with nice components, and, especially for Fantasy Flight, an exceptionally well-written rulebook. Whoever did the initial writing of it, and whoever did the translation, hats off to both of them.

(Edited for spelling on 1-5-2012)
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Bob Wilson
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berserkr wrote:
So Marlon Brando was also older than we all thought (even though he was obviously a zombie).


by that, you do mean a Zombie on a Rainbow Unicorn, don't you?

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Glauco Micsik Roberti
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LordBobbio wrote:
berserkr wrote:
So Marlon Brando was also older than we all thought (even though he was obviously a zombie).


by that, you do mean a Zombie on a Rainbow Unicorn, don't you?



Of course, but a zombie nonetheless.
 
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Nice to hear about the game. I do have a sealed copy on a shelf here... Maybe I'll pull the trigger.
 
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Dan Williams
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I have played this maybe 12 times, and found that it is aging as fine wine. It has some very interesting angles that change significantly with different buildings. For example, I have played mostly 2 player, and even after hogging the Saloon, she would beat me by accelerating the "clock" with the telegraph office. I played a five player game and the winner had his three starting cowboys only.

This one has surpassed Carson City for me, mainly because of the high density of the game. I define density as actions per time unit playing. Little down time, quick resolution, and crazy shootouts hit my sweet spot.
 
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Ilias Sellountos
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LordBobbio wrote:
berserkr wrote:
So Marlon Brando was also older than we all thought (even though he was obviously a zombie).


I bought this game this week and played this last night at X9 Games open-gaming night. I think it's got great potential, providing you are playing with a group of people who have all played at least once. Last night's session was a mixed bag.

Firstly, no one was enthusiastic to play even before we started, which dampened the experience some. No one was willing to fight a lot, except me. For most of the game, I was the only one to choose to fight, and the only one with any dead cowboys. Three of them to be exact. In a game in which about 1/3 of the rules involve gunfights, I think the lack of them in our session skewed things significantly.

Also, this is a game that might benefit from a little "deck structuring" during set-up, in this case regarding the face-down draw stracks for the buildings. A good tweak in all likelihood is to make sure the 2nd Saloon and the Hotel enter the game by at least the mid-way point... it these two important buildings don't come out until the end, the whole game can be skewed toward one player, which it was (Garrett) who won with a score of 23 vs. 12,11,8 for the others. The 2nd Saloon didn't enter the game until the last turn and the Hotel never entered the game in our session.

I don't think the game is broken in any way, but I'm starting to feel it could really use a tweak to the building deck during set-up and maybe a rule that a player's cowboy can only enter play by starting a fight.

I think it's a really cool little game and it looks great on the table with nice components, and, especially for Fantasy Flight, an exceptionally well-written rulebook. Whoever did the initial writing of it, and whoever did the translation, hats off to both of them.

(Edited for spelling on 1-5-2012)


Your suggestions are at cross purposes. You want more fights but want to make sure critical buildings are not in short supply which would lead to even less fights.

Just like many other games, one of the main balancing mechanics is that if a player gets too much of a lead he becomes the target of every other player. In groups where players tend to avoid confrontation, games like that do not work very well. In my last game, one player had to fight off three back to back duels with odds againt him in the very last round, for a critical building, in order to maintain the lead and win the game. And duels are far from the only 'attack' method in Deadwood. There are buildings that allow one player to steal money from another or load them with wanted posters. If one player is in a clear lead and is not automatically the target of all of these effects from everybody else you are playing it wrong.
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Bob Wilson
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Shemar wrote:
LordBobbio wrote:
berserkr wrote:
So Marlon Brando was also older than we all thought (even though he was obviously a zombie).


I bought this game this week and played this last night at X9 Games open-gaming night. I think it's got great potential, providing you are playing with a group of people who have all played at least once. Last night's session was a mixed bag.

Firstly, no one was enthusiastic to play even before we started, which dampened the experience some. No one was willing to fight a lot, except me. For most of the game, I was the only one to choose to fight, and the only one with any dead cowboys. Three of them to be exact. In a game in which about 1/3 of the rules involve gunfights, I think the lack of them in our session skewed things significantly.

Also, this is a game that might benefit from a little "deck structuring" during set-up, in this case regarding the face-down draw stracks for the buildings. A good tweak in all likelihood is to make sure the 2nd Saloon and the Hotel enter the game by at least the mid-way point... it these two important buildings don't come out until the end, the whole game can be skewed toward one player, which it was (Garrett) who won with a score of 23 vs. 12,11,8 for the others. The 2nd Saloon didn't enter the game until the last turn and the Hotel never entered the game in our session.

I don't think the game is broken in any way, but I'm starting to feel it could really use a tweak to the building deck during set-up and maybe a rule that a player's cowboy can only enter play by starting a fight.

I think it's a really cool little game and it looks great on the table with nice components, and, especially for Fantasy Flight, an exceptionally well-written rulebook. Whoever did the initial writing of it, and whoever did the translation, hats off to both of them.

(Edited for spelling on 1-5-2012)


Your suggestions are at cross purposes. You want more fights but want to make sure critical buildings are not in short supply which would lead to even less fights.

Just like many other games, one of the main balancing mechanics is that if a player gets too much of a lead he becomes the target of every other player. In groups where players tend to avoid confrontation, games like that do not work very well. In my last game, one player had to fight off three back to back duels with odds againt him in the very last round, for a critical building, in order to maintain the lead and win the game. And duels are far from the only 'attack' method in Deadwood. There are buildings that allow one player to steal money from another or load them with wanted posters. If one player is in a clear lead and is not automatically the target of all of these effects from everybody else you are playing it wrong.


I agree that you NEED to fight in this game, and if everyone avoids confrontation, it dampens the game experience. Trust me, I love conflict in games, and in my local group at least one guy says, "Bob has a reputation to uphold", in that even in a relatively-conflict-free game, I'll find a way to introduce some "screwage" or will attack when others would just tweak their economic engine.

But I think it's really hard to create a game that relies on the player behavior to gel together as a cohesive game. Sometimes the game is purely just that, such as Fuck You Buddy/So Long Sucker, and works well. Sometimes, a game is a blend of purely player-directed flow and tactics and strategy, like the very successful Condottiere. But I've encountered enough games where the reliance on player-directed flow left the game flat or open to dead-end experiences.

This is particularly true if everyone playing is new to a game. And in this day and age when there are so many game choices, it means folks will pass judgement after that one lack-luster play and you can never get the game back to the table.

So for Deadwood, I think there would be some benefit to making sure that if people didn't fully grok the "you need to be combative" concept, the game wouldn't be so lopsided the first time around.

 
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