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War of the Ring (First Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Relieving a Siege rss

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Will Fogg
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I read in the rules that when an army relieves a siege, the army inside the stronghold (i.e. being sieged) can NOT participate in the battle.I think this is nonsense and I dont agree with it: why cant you sortie at the same time as the relief army is engaging the enemy?? This far more epic, and I think the mechanics of this rule being applied lead to some nonsense situations.

Take a look at the following example:

So your 5 gondorim+gandalf+aragorn are besieged in Minas Tirith by a 10 sized army+Nazguls+Witch King, and here you come with an army of rohirrim and elves drafted after luckily beating Saruman with the Entcards.

If the Rohirrim army's size is:

5: Booo, you will have to do better. As the garrison and gandalf look powerless from the walls of Minas Tirith, the 5 Rohirrim army faces the 10 sauron army + WitchKing+Nazguls and is utterly destroyed, causing at best some casualties. The siege is not relieved and the situation didnt change much.

10: The Sauron army sees all this Rohiriim charging and after 1 round of combat, decide to be smart and use the shadow-brains: They retreat to Osgiliath. In this very moment, the 5 gondorian armies leave the city to greet their 10 saviors and, uh, oh, Aragorn realizes there are too many soldiers now and it would be best if 5 of them just disbanded and returned to their homes again...
...and the witch King from afar decides this is the moment to come back charging again to battle the free peoples, who just lost 1/3 of their strength because of their victory and engage them in a 10vs10 balanced battle.

All these inconsistencies and nonsense is fixed just letting the besieged army sortie at the same time as the relieving army attacks. Then you just have to relieve with a 5 strength army and its a 10vs10 fair fight, no troops disbanded, all leaders participate.

After all: is this not what happens at Helms Deep in the movie? Gandalf and Eomer charge at dawn at the same time Strider and Theoden sortie out of Helm's Deep with whathever Rohirrim they have left.

Please write your ideas, how do you play and why.
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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The example you are describing is the one the Event card "Help Unlooked For" takes care of.

The fact that you cannot use both an attacking Army and the besieged one is because of two reasons:

1: The rules NEVER (except the Event card mentioned above, and Event cards break the rules all the time - they are supposed to) allows any player to attack with more than one Army.

2: The number of units available to the defender would make sieges way more difficult and unbalance the entire game.

William_Fogg wrote:
10: The Sauron army sees all this Rohiriim charging and after 1 round of combat, decide to be smart and use the shadow-brains: They retreat to Osgiliath. In this very moment, the 5 gondorian armies leave the city to greet their 10 saviors and, uh, oh, Aragorn realizes there are too many soldiers now and it would be best if 5 of them just disbanded and returned to their homes again...


This could never be the case (if what you propose would be in the rules) as the attacker never needs to move the attacking units into the attacked region.
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Will Fogg
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Thanks Veldrin for your lightning reply!!

The Event card "Help Unlooked for" is good...but then you are limited to just one Real Relief per game. I still dont like the idea of Heroes and troops looking from the walls as their comrades are massacred, even if it unbalances the game a bit: I find the FP rearely have the force to try and relief a siege, and when they do, you have to wait for the right card to do it?...hmmm...

As to what you say that it could never been the case, maybe I didnt explain myself correctly: let me try again.

5 FP troops besieged in Minas Tirith Stronghold. 10 Shadow besieging in Minas Tirith Region. 10 FP relief troops coming from north.

The relief troops attack Minas Tirith Region (they do not move in to the region yet). The battle is fought: only 1 round after which shadow retreats to Osgiliath. The FP relief army advances in to Minas Tirith Region and the besieged force also comes out in to the region. as there are now 15 troops, 5 have to be inmediately disbanded. Next shadow action is attack from Osgiliath in to Minas Tirith.

Is this not possible? I think it is...and quite unfair.
 
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Derry Salewski
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So the shadow army misses you with ten dice+combat card?

And you missed him?

I mean I guess it happens, but it's probably going to seem unfair whenever it does.

But like Veldrin explained, it's just the math of the game. If you could have fifteen vs ten unit battles all the time, they'd just have to change something else about how sieges work and you'd complain that armies couldn't be mustered and moved fast enough to relieve sieges.
 
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Will Fogg
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No, i did not mean that.

I understand that there should be no 15vs10 battles. What I propose is this: if the 10 relief army tries to relieve the siege with 5 inside, you should disband 5 before the battle and then fight 10vs10, but have all the troops and leaders inside the stronghold fight.

What follows is: you just need a relief force of 5 to enter a battle of 10vs10.
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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William_Fogg wrote:
5 FP troops besieged in Minas Tirith Stronghold. 10 Shadow besieging in Minas Tirith Region. 10 FP relief troops coming from north.

The relief troops attack Minas Tirith Region (they do not move in to the region yet). The battle is fought: only 1 round after which shadow retreats to Osgiliath. The FP relief army advances in to Minas Tirith Region and the besieged force also comes out in to the region. as there are now 15 troops, 5 have to be inmediately disbanded. Next shadow action is attack from Osgiliath in to Minas Tirith.

Is this not possible? I think it is...and quite unfair.


Once a battle in War of the Ring is over the attacker (if he won) is not forced to move any units into the attacked region. All, some, or none of the attacking units can stay behind in the region from which the attack originated.
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Will Fogg
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Well, that solves everything for me Veldrin! I had obviously overlooked that when reading the rulebook.

Thank you very much!
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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William_Fogg wrote:
Well, that solves everything for me Veldrin! I had obviously overlooked that when reading the rulebook.

Thank you very much!


You are most welcome!
 
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