Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Caylus» Forums » General

Subject: Help Me Get This to the Table...Please! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Michael Link
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I enjoy Caylus quite a bit, but so far all my play has been on BSW. This has made for a fairly quick (read: painful) ascent up the learning curve although I'm not yet really that good.

I own the 2nd edition and just received the Premium edition for Christmas. However, the 2nd edition has hit the table exactly twice...total. I just cannot get anyone to play the game, and even on the rare occasions that I do, they get all glazed over and it is quite clear they won't be playing again.

When I learned Caylus, I spent a good deal of time reading the strategy forums here on the Geek and printed out a PDF of all the buildings, so I knew what they all did prior to playing. No one among my friends or family would be willing to do that.

Any tips of how I could make this more palatable for non-gamers/light gamers and help get this to the table?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Redford
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Perhaps if you have enough other players, you can have them play the game themselves without you playing, you would just be there to moderate and make sure it all goes smoothly. Just give them suggestions for their turn and why they might want to do that (like collecting goods at the start, then going to the castle for points and favors, or building better buildings).

Once they get through a game amongst themselves and see how it flows, then you can join in and they can try out new strategies and see yours.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pedro Pereira
United Kingdom
Belfast
flag msg tools
See the person next to you? Kill! Kill!!! KILLL!!!!
badge
I'm your baby! Can you feel it?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe you should try to work your way through other games before starting with Caylus, especially if the people you're trying to play this with are only non/light gamers, since Caylus is far from being a light game. It's actually one of the heaviest out there.

My suggestion is that you try to captivate their interest via lighter games but which hint towards that style, to my mind Stone Age would make a perfect introduction to such games.

It looks beautiful, so that should catch attention, it plays fairly quickly, it's fun and engaging and there's never too much going on, which is, I'm sure, one of the turn-offs regarding Caylus.

Some other suggestions of games I own that might make it possible to play it in the future:

- Notre Dame
- Rum & Pirates
- Colosseum

These are just a few examples of gorgeous looking games that captivate interest of any casual gamer just by the looks of it, and are not too demanding yet each one of those, in one way or another, provide some elements that can be found in Caylus without making the game too complex.

Most important thing is not to press your friends too much, that will only make them hate the game without even trying it. With casual gamers, you really have to work your way upwards to the likes of Power Grid, Caylus or Goa for example.

Only after repeatedly playing certain kinds of games will they be able to enjoy deeper challenges such as Caylus (which is a hard-core challenge really, it's as tough as it can get but totally rewarding once mastered)

Good luck.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Freelance Police
United States
Palo Alto
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Which city are you in? Find a Meetup or game convention for this sort of thing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Maggi
United States
Loudonville
NY
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
theright555J wrote:
I just cannot get anyone to play the game, and even on the rare occasions that I do, they get all glazed over and it is quite clear they won't be playing again.

When I learned Caylus, I spent a good deal of time reading the strategy forums here on the Geek and printed out a PDF of all the buildings, so I knew what they all did prior to playing. No one among my friends or family would be willing to do that.


First off, I am biased about Caylus in that I have played it and don't really enjoy it. I start to glaze over myself when I just think about it.

But... frankly, I would never push a game on others (especially family, who I distinguish as a different group from my gaming buddies) that would require them to study strategy guides or forums to learn how to play, or play better. I would either sum them up verbally while explaining the rules or else wait to play the game with others who want to commit to that level. On the other hand, knowing that they won't commit to study the game to the same level as you, why would you want to play with them? Wouldn't it be an unfair match, with you always winning?

Different people like different games. Join a gaming club where you can meet others who might enjoy the games you like. Whenever I have a game that I think my regular gaming group won't like I run it at one of our monthly club meetings, and it goes over well.

Just my two cents.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Larry Buckel
United States
Whittier
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I suggest Caylus Magna Carta to get new players used to using some of the core mechanics of Caylus without the longer complex rules.

My wife and I enjoy playing Caylus, Pillars of the Earth and Florenza as worker placement games.

Pillars is also lighter than Caylus though the mechanics are different.

Congrats on getting the Premium edition. You will see a lot of complaints regarding the dark art work here on BGG but I like the layout of the board as it keeps the castle central to the theme of the game (it is a game about castle building). I'm happy to be in the minority here!

I like to play it but since it's OOP I don't like to take it out to public events. I am planning on buying the new Ystari 4th edition soon to publish as it's HD artwork looks cool but keeps the original layout so regular Caylus players won't be put off.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Klaus Brune
United States
Torrance
California
flag msg tools
badge
HEY! That TICKLES!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
buck380 wrote:
My wife and I enjoy playing Caylus, Pillars of the Earth and Florenza as worker placement games.


+1 for Pillars. I've been wildly successful with it with non-gamers, to the point that they're asking for it on game nights. Better with The Pillars of the Earth: Expansion Set even with less than 5 players, just for the extra craftsmen & privilege cards.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Link
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Pedrator wrote:
Only after repeatedly playing certain kinds of games will they be able to enjoy deeper challenges such as Caylus (which is a hard-core challenge really, it's as tough as it can get but totally rewarding once mastered)


Thank you very much for the advice!

I guess here's my thing, and perhaps this is where I lack understanding: it doesn't really HAVE to be a hard-core challenge; if noobs are playing with noobs, nobody should get crushed, and for the first few games, it's just placing cylinders on squares and getting a feel for what happens. Somehow it's just tough for me to get others to relax enough to try that; probably it's just my bias for heavy games that puts me in lonely places sometimes.

Playing as a noob on BSW, OTOH, is most certainly a hard-core challenge.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pedro Pereira
United Kingdom
Belfast
flag msg tools
See the person next to you? Kill! Kill!!! KILLL!!!!
badge
I'm your baby! Can you feel it?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
theright555J wrote:
I guess here's my thing, and perhaps this is where I lack understanding: it doesn't really HAVE to be a hard-core challenge; if noobs are playing with noobs, nobody should get crushed, and for the first few games, it's just placing cylinders on squares and getting a feel for what happens. Somehow it's just tough for me to get others to relax enough to try that; probably it's just my bias for heavy games that puts me in lonely places sometimes.


What I mean by hard-core challenge is not in that players are extremely competitive but rather on the amount of entangled information the game provides. I understand what you're trying to say there, the problem is that, as far as I see it, that as long as players don't fully understand the game, the experience will simply be a very swampy one. Just placing cylinders on squares and feeling that they're not getting anywhere with it sounds too labyrinthical to be relaxing. People want to understand what they're doing and in this particular game, that means commit to a lot of information and different interwoven game mechanics, this requires investing time, which is something noobs don't feel like doing because they aren't fully aware of how great the experience can be if a little "work" is put into it, and the lack of this awareness (thus the lack of committing to seriously try), is closely connected to the lack of previous positive experiences in board gaming acquired by more simpler and straight forward games, and only slowly building their way towards heavier stuff being then able to fully appreciate it.

I might be dramatizing a bit here, but my personal experience is that newbies feel too overwhelmed by some games, board-gaming has a very unique logic and way of thinking, a very own method of reasoning if you like, and this has to be acquired over time starting from simple towards complex.

As an example, I have this friend who never played anything that wasn't Monopoly before. He got really interested in my collection and was very eager to try a few games and I played Einauge sei wachsam! and a few others in that line. Some other day he caught me and some friends playing StarCraft: The Board Game and was just amazed at how the game looked, he wanted to try it out and so we did, in the middle of first order placement round he was so overwhelmed by the amount of stuff he had to remember, the strategic options, etc. we stopped immediately, he was actually feeling embarrassed thinking he was too stupid to understand. I assured him it wasn't his fault, maybe next time we try Shadows over Camelot and build our way slowly over Chaos in the Old World (doesn't take too long) and then A Game of Thrones (first edition), till he's up to the challenge of StarCraft: The Board Game. But that's really the only way, and forcing your friends will only shy them away...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Todd Redden
United States
Manchester
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Nut'n honey
badge
"One of the key problems today is that politics is such a disgrace, good people don't go into government." - Donald Trump
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Are these "glazed over" gamers general board gamers, or are they general people you're trying to get to play Caylus? I recently tried to get some general people to play Code 777 and they just couldn't do it. No, we seriously tried but they could neither get the necessary information from the answers to questions (the logic part) nor could they regularly answer the questions correctly. Don't try to get non-board gamers to play Caylus. Bad idea.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Link
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I may try using the beginner rules for royal favors and omitting the provost in the first few games. Then once they feel comfortable enough with the buildings, upgrade to the full game.

And several of the people I am referring to have already played Agricola. Caylus just has a different learning curve due to learning the buildings and the concept of delayed building activation (as opposed to Agricola where you take the action immediately)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.