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Subject: Standard Game = Lame, Epic = Terrific! rss

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Richard Binney
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I've had about 8 plays of this game and so far have become a big fan of it. The thing is though, I have only played 3 games without the epic variant and have not been impressed by the results. The first game was OK as we were all new to the game and still working things out. However we've played twice without the epic variant, and it seems to be lacking quite a bit. At first we thought we might enjoy a shorter game with a bit of mystery surrounding the Rune tokens, but this was not the case. Both times a different player won through mostly luck in the 3rd-4th year. The only battles seen was a futile last charge to an obvious fake rune, when it was inevitable one of the player's was going to win. The idea of 'which runes are false' is a bit redundant considering the lack of space on the board to place rune tokens.

On both occasions we played with Exploration markers, which might have contributed to one of the players getting a bit luckier, but IMO this game is very lackluster without the Epic variant in place.

Thoughts?
 
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Frank Franco
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Stick to epic.
When you get the expansion switch back to normal.
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Richard Binney
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
Stick to epic.
When you get the expansion switch back to normal.


I'm looking forward to trying out that expansion, unfortunately the shop which supplies FFG stuff as sold out of BoW. Can't wait for it to be re-stocked!
 
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Jason Miceli
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Why? - what does the expansion do in this regard?
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Scott Lewis
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jasonmiceli wrote:
Why? - what does the expansion do in this regard?

It has a new optional endgame condition where you don't win instantly, but reveal your runes and win if you still control enough the next year.
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Ben Skellett
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A wolf and a penguin could never live together, nor could a camel and a hippopotamus. That would be absurd.
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
Stick to epic.
When you get the expansion switch back to normal.


Thanks for the advice on this. I mostly agree with the "Standard Game = Lame, Epic = Terrific!" vibe on this so now that I'm ready to play with the expansion it's good to know that I can go back to standard.
 
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Jason Miceli
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sigmazero13 wrote:
jasonmiceli wrote:
Why? - what does the expansion do in this regard?

It has a new optional endgame condition where you don't win instantly, but reveal your runes and win if you still control enough the next year.


Ahh - that's cool!
 
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Tiago Nunes
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I won't dispute that regular Runewars can result in short games and that the end can be very anti-climatic.

But I must dispute that winning has anything to do with luck. Yes, luck can get you a dragon throne from the exploration tokens and it can grant you a timorran shard for one of your heroes. The rest is up to the players.

Consider that it's in the winter that runes are obtained for players with a good amount of influence. These players (usually elves and humans) can be a way for the more aggressive races (Uthuk and Waiqar) to win dragon runes.

Also while the "good" heroes get rewards, "bad" heroes can duel them and steal them. Keep in mind that there's a title that gives you a dragon rune for each 3 rewards.

There is also a title that gives you more strength when you're in an area with dragon runes making those empty runes not so irrelevant.

Also there's a card in Autumn that makes you move runes from your home realm to outer areas, so maybe keeping all those dragon runes behind can come back to hurt you.

If you keep track of how many runes your opponents are gaining you notice the games getting more interesting as from the 4th rune a player gains it almost becomes mandatory to go after him (especially if he still hasn't revealed his objective!).

That said, some endings can be anti-climatic all the same, and to that effect, as many have said here, the expansion helps in solving this by forcing you to endure a turn after you revealed your dragon runes. (Though from the games I've played with the expansion so far no one actually reaches the necessary number of runes to win and the game ends because we reach the end of the 6th year).

If that doesn't work for you, or you have already considered all these points then maybe Epic really is the variant for you Have fun.
 
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Frank Franco
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Tuna Dude wrote:
Mr Skeletor wrote:
Stick to epic.
When you get the expansion switch back to normal.


I'm looking forward to trying out that expansion, unfortunately the shop which supplies FFG stuff as sold out of BoW. Can't wait for it to be re-stocked!


If you are in melb I'll give you a game.
 
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Richard Binney
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ghosthack wrote:

But I must dispute that winning has anything to do with luck. Yes, luck can get you a dragon throne from the exploration tokens and it can grant you a timorran shard for one of your heroes. The rest is up to the players.


It's a bit hard for that to happen if the runes fall into the lap of a player very fast. I could see how one could potentially win in year 1 if they...

- Pick up "Favour of Kellos" on the first turn. Play it straight away then mobilize into that area. Mobilize into another empty area.
- Discover a Dragon Throne where mobilized units happen to be. The hero picks up a shard while completing a quest in there.
- During Fall, player builds a stronghold.
- Winter, players bid for a Dragon Rune. This player happens to have the most influence. He then plays "Strategize" so that his Hero can move into the previously built stronghold. 6 Runes by year 1, and nothing anyone could do to stop it.

This is a very unlikely scenario, but it is still possible. Even if the player were to achieve this by year 2, the others would still be making a stretch to win a rune back off him.
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Tiago Nunes
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If someone gets THAT lucky, then it's a sign of god. Also you can't play tactics cards on the first turn as you can't play them on the turn you receive them. That gives the other players a whole turn to get near that player (which may or may not be enough to steal a rune depending on the map and player positions).
 
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Scott Lewis
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ghosthack wrote:
If someone gets THAT lucky, then it's a sign of god. Also you can't play tactics cards on the first turn as you can't play them on the turn you receive them. That gives the other players a whole turn to get near that player (which may or may not be enough to steal a rune depending on the map and player positions).

You receive your starting cards during setup, not during Spring. Spring doesn't start until you draw the Spring season card.

You can indeed play your starting tactics card during your first turn.
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Tiago Nunes
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sigmazero13 wrote:

You receive your starting cards during setup, not during Spring. Spring doesn't start until you draw the Spring season card.

You can indeed play your starting tactics card during your first turn.


That makes sense, but I always assumed that it would be that way as it minimized luck of the draw on the first turn.

Is there any explicit mention of this case in the rules (or FAQ/errata)?
 
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Scott Lewis
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Not explicitly. The only rule restricting Tactics card usage is that it says you can't play a Tactics card in the same season it is drawn. Thus, if it's not drawn during Spring, it's legal to play in Spring.

It's worth noting that in step 12 of Setup, at the very end, it then says "Now, the players begin the first season (round) of the game." Since that's when you begin the first season, that means everything prior was BEFORE the first season.

Restricting the use of your starting cards in the Spring would do almost nothing to minimize the luck of the draw for starting cards, though; they still have the cards, and it's early enough in the game where it's not like other players could do anything about it anyway.
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Sam Butler
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sigmazero13 wrote:
jasonmiceli wrote:
Why? - what does the expansion do in this regard?

It has a new optional endgame condition where you don't win instantly, but reveal your runes and win if you still control enough the next year.


What stops you from playing "normal" but incorporating this optional rule? I see no reason why you need to own the expansion to use this rule.
 
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Scott Lewis
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butsam wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
jasonmiceli wrote:
Why? - what does the expansion do in this regard?

It has a new optional endgame condition where you don't win instantly, but reveal your runes and win if you still control enough the next year.


What stops you from playing "normal" but incorporating this optional rule? I see no reason why you need to own the expansion to use this rule.

Nothing, really, though the expansion does come with new cards to mark when the year is up.

There is a lot more in the expansion that is worth getting, though, such as new units, new quests, new cards, etc.
 
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Jason Miceli
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sigmazero13 wrote:
butsam wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
jasonmiceli wrote:
Why? - what does the expansion do in this regard?

It has a new optional endgame condition where you don't win instantly, but reveal your runes and win if you still control enough the next year.


What stops you from playing "normal" but incorporating this optional rule? I see no reason why you need to own the expansion to use this rule.

Nothing, really, though the expansion does come with new cards to mark when the year is up.

There is a lot more in the expansion that is worth getting, though, such as new units, new quests, new cards, etc.


Agree - the expansion is awesome!
 
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