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Subject: New edition of Starmada in 2012 rss

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Daniel Berger
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It seems mj12games is releasing a new version of Starmada:

http://www.mj12games.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3565

Synopsis provided from mj12games:
Quote:

* A more streamlined movement system

* Three distinct and layered types of starship defenses (later revealed to be ECM, shields and armor).

* A reduction in the number of die rolls, and amount of time, required to resolve ship-to-ship combat. In some cases, the outcome of an attack can be decided by a single throw of the dice!

On the other hand, much remains unchanged, such as:

* A commitment to balanced game play;

* A core set of rules accessible to beginners yet robust enough to support the needs of experienced gamers;

* The most comprehensive set of starship construction rules available in any game currently available!


Ok, now the personal commentary.

As for a more streamlined system, I'm all for it, but I've never been a big fan of vector(ish) movement anyway. It's difficult to remember the rules and teach it to newbies. We'll see what they come up with. I'm not sure if they're keeping the "Brian rule" around.

Regarding layered defenses, I don't like it. This was handled in a very streamlined fashion in the current rule set with armor and ECM integrated as ship options. Making them separate systems introduces unwanted complexity into the game, and I wonder if they'll be able to balance the myriad of weapons systems against the new rules properly.

Lastly, reducing the number of die rolls might seem like a good idea, but I'm not convinced it will work. I realize that wristage is one of the knocks against the game, but having the outcome of an attack resolved in single die roll? It probably comes at the expense of more up front calculations, so I'm not so sure what the net gain will be. And I definitely hope it doesn't degenerate into potential one shot kills ala Saganami Island.

I'm actually pretty annoyed with this announcement in general, though. I've already done this dance to death with SFB, and now MJ12 is doing the same thing with Starmada? So, all the expansions I bought are now obsolete, too? I guess I should just do what my friend suggested: ignore the new game and just enjoy what I've already got.
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Joe Reil
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djberg96 wrote:
As for a more streamlined system, I'm all for it, but I've never been a big fan of vector(ish) movement anyway. It's difficult to remember the rules and teach it to newbies.


It doesn't have to be complicated. The optional Vector movement rules in Full Thrust, for instance, were an amazing achievement. Reasonably accurate, easy and fast.

Quote:
I'm actually pretty annoyed with this announcement in general, though. I've already done this dance to death with SFB, and now MJ12 is doing the same thing with Starmada? So, all the expansions I bought are now obsolete, too? I guess I should just do what my friend suggested: ignore the new game and just enjoy what I've already got.


I bought the PDF of the current version as soon as it was available and as I've been busy with other stuff it's kind of been on the back burner for me for a while. Unless this looks like a necessary update, I'll probably just stick with that one.
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Cracky McCracken
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Quote:
I'm actually pretty annoyed with this announcement in general, though. I've already done this dance to death with SFB, and now MJ12 is doing the same thing with Starmada? So, all the expansions I bought are now obsolete, too? I guess I should just do what my friend suggested: ignore the new game and just enjoy what I've already got.


i think your friend is right. The Star Fleet Starmada stuff is great. They just got done publishing it all. What a strange move for MJ12.

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Michael Cox
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Yeah and I recently bought the Romulan Armada stuff in PDF and the Starmada AE book so I could maybe make other Star Trek ships. I really hope they update the Star Fleet Starmada items to the newest rule set and update the PDFs and let those be free updates. If they do that, then I may get the newest Starmada rulebook. Otherwise, I will just stick with what I have and most likely not buy more Star Fleet Starmada products since anything new will be using new rules, etc.

Michael
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Daniel Berger
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Cracky wrote:
They just got done publishing it all. What a strange move for MJ12.


Indeed, they've basically just declared all their current products obsolete. So, unless they're handing out free PDF updates for the modules they just got done publishing, I really think they've hurt themselves with this announcement.
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Jeremy Fridy
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I admit, after printing up several hundred pages of Starmada rules and ship sheets, I'll plan to stick to what I've got. Maybe once it's cheap enough I'll take a look at the new edition.
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Daniel Kast
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Lots of discussion regarding the whys and wherefores of the new edition can be found at our official forum (http://mj12games.com/forum) so I won't rehash it all here.

Suffice to say that while I fully understand the fears and frustrations whenever a new edition comes out, at the same time the game can't stand still. I don't see this as a "strange move", but a natural one. Other projects (some released, some still in waiting) have convinced me that now is the time, and I have confidence the changes being made are for the better. Hopefully others will agree.

We will do our best to accommodate existing players and make the transition as painless as possible. In particular, the current plan is to update all existing SFU ships to the new edition right away, and then move forward with what would have been the next release anyway (Battleship Armada?).

Regarding specific questions in this thread:

1) Non-vector movement remains an option, as does "The Brian Rule".

2) The layered defenses are seamlessly integrated into the combat system. No additional complexity, and fully balanced with the various weapon traits.

3) The reduced number of die rolls isn't nearly as drastic a change as you might think.

In short, while I can't expect everyone will absolutely love what we're doing with the game, I would hope players can judge the new edition for what it is, rather than what they fear it will be.
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Graham Smallwood
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It's D&D 4.5.

I've been a huge advocate of this AE. I demo it at cons and run campaigns with friends. I just read through all the changes for the new edition and I feel I've swallowed a rock. I've taught AE to complete noobs using the vector system with no problem, and the attack system has made sense after the first set of dice. I can't imagine the target audience for removing so much detail. A fistful of dice is Good, not something to avoid.

And don't say "If you don't like the new version just keep playing the old version." A new version of a game always kills an old one. Unless you get a massive outcry that makes Pathfinder a thing maintaining an old version of a game, saying "Starmada" will always mean the latest version. (Actually, all the optional rules made it tough enough to announce a Starmada table to people who knew the game.)

If you want to make a new game that changes everything, give it a new name.
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Daniel Berger
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Quote:
It's D&D 4.5

I feel your pain. You don't even want to know how many times I went through this with SFB over the years.

The new movement rules are no problem. There are already movement options presented in both Appendix D of the core rulebook and Appendix D of the Rules Annex, so it's always been a matter of picking what you prefer. I'm taking it as just another movement option.

Unfortunately, it seems that they're fundamentally altering the ship construction and combat as well, and that won't be compatible. It's a shame, too, because it really feels like they're turning it into Starmada: Fleet Ops, which is the opposite direction of what I would have wanted (if I had wanted a new release at all).

I'm not sure what's driving all this because, just looking back through a few months of forum posts, I don't see a clamoring for a change in ship design or the combat system. Perhaps the minis crowd at conventions? Not sure.

Anyway, unlike SFB, I can easily resist the "MUST. BUY. NEWEST. STUFF." temptation for this game. There are so many expansions, plus all the fan based stuff on the forums, plus whatever we come up with on our own.

I can always just go back to SFB exclusively, too.
 
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Jeremy Fridy
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Also I want to know what they are doing with the Star Fleet Universe setting. Are they going to put more books out using the system they used for the first 4 books, or are they going to switch over, because I really liked the chance for a campaign using Starmada for large battles, but Federation Commander for small engagements.
 
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Keith Anderson
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I'm sure I'll buy the new version. I like the posted movement rules - very easy to teach and use. I also like the idea of reducing the number of levels of dice throws so that it doesn't take 4 rolls to knock out a particular weapon. Mainly, I'm always looking for the next great tactical space combat rules system and look forward to seeing what innovations this game's update is going to present.
 
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Jeb
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Any updates by folks on the Admiralty edition now that it has been out a few years?
 
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