Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
20 Posts

A Few Acres of Snow» Forums » Strategy

Subject: French Starting Hands rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Alex Rockwell
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I find some French starting hands to be extremely bad. (At least, when trying to defend against a British player who builds up and then and then attack).

Hands like:
Infantry
One ship card.
Three fur cards.

And then your trader is at or near the bottom of your deck.

With Quebec in hand I can usually use it to develop something like Gaspe or Tadoussac to set up a later governor of that card, but sometimes there is just no way to get goign and no way to cycle cards.


Givne the strength of the british attack, I wish the French player was allowed to chosoe the starting 5 cards in their hand.


(Yes, here I am proposing changes days after Martin Wallace posted official rules changes. I feel the British are probably still broken).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Foerster
United States
Charlotte
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here we go again!

I'm far from experienced with this game but in my limited plays (we didn't stumble upon the Hammer, and so played it as it was "meant" to be played) we found that if the French started cracking they'd ramp up in a big way (trading a big lot and then expanding / stocking their deck).

In many instances, though, the French got caught with a bunch of crap cards in their hand. Partly because their income efficiency requires, in some part, being able to trade a lot of cards for a big windfall. Or because they had a bunch of really specialized (read: mostly useless) cards (fur cards if no trader, bateaux [though this has been fixed ... I can't imagine *drafting* the bateaux]). I think it's the general consequence of starting with a thicker deck and having strategies that generally benefit from big deck payoffs (as opposed to the British, whose cards seem to more often be multipurpose, though with somewhat less efficiency than French cards).

Again, I've not got a whole lot of plays under my belt.

Edit: Also, with the French it can be pretty slow to churn crappy cards and, often, there may even be some reluctance to do so because you don't necessarily want to start ditching furs if a trader may be coming soon.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Seitz
United States
Glen Allen
VA
flag msg tools
badge
Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Alexfrog wrote:
I find some French starting hands to be extremely bad. (At least, when trying to defend against a British player who builds up and then and then attack).

Hands like:
Infantry
One ship card.
Three fur cards.

And then your trader is at or near the bottom of your deck.

With Quebec in hand I can usually use it to develop something like Gaspe or Tadoussac to set up a later governor of that card, but sometimes there is just no way to get goign and no way to cycle cards.

I think you want to save up Q for settling Halifax the first time around, however, you always have to be careful of your opponent rushing a raider and surprising you at Q.

Quote:
Givne the strength of the british attack, I wish the French player was allowed to chosoe the starting 5 cards in their hand.

This might be too strong, though.

Best would surely be trading for 8 (turn 1), with cards guaranteed for a siege on Pemaquid/Halifax, +2 money* (turn 2), and then a subsequent trade +8 turn after that (turn 3), draft siege artillery (or CdB if opponent got a raider)

Quote:
(Yes, here I am proposing changes days after Martin Wallace posted official rules changes. I feel the British are probably still broken).

Don't worry, you're in good company! shake


* Most players make the mistake of loading up 3 military on a siege at Pemaquid. This is a critical mistake, as those actions are just wasted if you can't settle it (as Alex can attest!) Pemaquid is worthless for the British, but can be dangerous if French settle it, keeping a blade at the British neck in Boston. Winning a siege is the best way to settle it, but if you miss that chance by not having a settler, Port Royal will be under siege the next time you have the right cards, and you will have lost your chance.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Seitz
United States
Glen Allen
VA
flag msg tools
badge
Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
andrewfoerster wrote:
I think it's the general consequence of starting with a thicker deck and having strategies that generally benefit from big deck payoffs (as opposed to the British, whose cards seem to more often be multipurpose, though with somewhat less efficiency than French cards).

What do you mean by "less efficiency than French cards"?

As I see things, British cards are all around better than the French. The British deck has greater military density, greater money density, greater developing potential, and will cycle faster than the French deck, on average.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gavan Brown
Canada
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Hands like:
Infantry
One ship card.
Three fur cards.


I agree, however an infantry in your starting hand is not bad. You gotta reserve that crap or send him off to die in a seige immediately.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Seitz
United States
Glen Allen
VA
flag msg tools
badge
Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RoosterJuice wrote:
Quote:
Hands like:
Infantry
One ship card.
Three fur cards.


I agree, however an infantry in your starting hand is not bad. You gotta reserve that crap or send him off to die in a seige immediately.

Reserving him is a lost action. That's why having him without Port Royal + ship = bad.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gavan Brown
Canada
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Worst Starting hand ever:
Gaspe
Louisbourg
Montreal
Tadoussac
Trois Riviers

Seriously... what am I to do with that?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Seitz
United States
Glen Allen
VA
flag msg tools
badge
Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As you can see, the "locations cannot be reserved" rules serves to hurt the French with certain card draws. Best you can probably do is just merchant 3 Rivers and Montreal for 2 money. Good news with that draw is you will either be able to lay siege next turn (25%) or trade for 4 (75%) and lay siege on turn 3.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Nordstrom
United States
Drums
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tim,

I'm curious, do you often use Port Royal+RI to siege Pemequid on turn 1 as the French...if so, is the goal to actually win the siege or to simply remove 2 cards from your hand early in the game? It seems that British ships could easily defeat the attack on Turn 2. Sorry if I seem dense, but is the french goal here to waste British actions (forcing them to play to defend Pemequid) or to thin your own deck, or both?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Seitz
United States
Glen Allen
VA
flag msg tools
badge
Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Both.

1) It removes a useless card, or rather puts it to its proper use. The French deck is only money-efficient when it's thin and this only happens during a siege.

2) It forces British to respond, they will eventually have to act if you threaten to take AND SETTLE Pemaquid. Sieging Pemaquid shouldn't "use up" British actions because a good British player probably won't immediately throw down 2 cards on it. But they will have to draft military, perhaps earlier than they might have wanted.

The danger is when the Brits have enough military to ignore the Pemaquid siege and just lay siege to Port Royal. With 2 of your military somewhere else, you can't defend it. Then you lose PR. Not a good trade!

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ray
United States
Carpentersville
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Perhaps their needs to be an option like discard all fur at 1 money apiece (when no trader)? or maybe let an Indian act as a less effective trader at 1 money each fur?

You're quite right that the wrong combo and/or a larger deck kills the French when it happens.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Miller
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Would giving the French a mulligan be a good balance tweak?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gabrio Secco
Italy
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
a french mulligan sounds a good idea.

RI, Montreal, Quebec, Tadussac, Trois rivers.
What is the best move for French with this open?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Seitz
United States
Glen Allen
VA
flag msg tools
badge
Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mugnaio wrote:
a french mulligan sounds a good idea.

RI, Montreal, Quebec, Tadussac, Trois rivers.
What is the best move for French with this open?

In descending order of my preferences:

1) Merchant for 2 with Quebec, Montreal, and 3 Rivers.

2) Develop Montreal

3) Reserve Infantry
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gabrio Secco
Italy
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
out4blood wrote:


1) Merchant for 2 with Quebec, Montreal, and 3 Rivers.



very nice, thank you

I played Quebec alone for 2, and on turn 2 I understood how poor was that move
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Seitz
United States
Glen Allen
VA
flag msg tools
badge
Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mugnaio wrote:
out4blood wrote:


1) Merchant for 2 with Quebec, Montreal, and 3 Rivers.



very nice, thank you

I played Quebec alone for 2, and on turn 2 I understood how poor was that move

Yea, the important thing for French is to cycle as rapidly as possible, even if the action itself might be suboptimal.

Getting rid of 3 cards gives you a higher chance of getting either the trader - for a big money play, or PR + L-burg to launch a siege (you're hoping they settle Halifax) and get the mil cards out of your hand.

As a general rule, you should never play Quebec for the money. Either you develop a location, or you keep it in in hand to settle a siege win, or you use it to merchant.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gavan Brown
Canada
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Perfect Start:
LBurg, PR, Trader, Inf, Gaspe
- Launch PM siege from PR

Trader, Mont, Gaspe, Toudassac, Trois Riviere
- Trader for 8

- Buy CDB
- Buy Arty
...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Dilloo
United States
Bothell
Washington
flag msg tools
Everything is relative to perception, and your perception is limited.
badge
The Ginger Ninja
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, but only because you might hold Quebec to settle, and put the Brits on the defensive. If you can raid away Norfolk, that is a huge play. But, I think this is also why starting with that hand, everytime, is too powerful. Trade one semiscripted start for another.

From the previous example, yes, hold Quebec to settle Halifax, or siege it. Do not develop Gaspe or Taduossac, unless you just want to make it easier for the Brits to win earlier.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gavan Brown
Canada
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This followed by 3 more perfect draws were the closest i ever came to beating Tim, that bastard.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Dilloo
United States
Bothell
Washington
flag msg tools
Everything is relative to perception, and your perception is limited.
badge
The Ginger Ninja
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is the problem. Those top 10-20 players that only run the hammer, are the outliers now. You would crush the lessor hammerers with that.

This is the biggest problem, how to balance out those top hammerers, without making the French too powerful, or skew the other aspects of the game......or, just don't play those top 10 guys, especially Tim, as the French. :-D
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.