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Subject: Scenario #1 Ok?? rss

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Troy Nichols
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Jim

Just bought and the game and played Scenario #1 with a friend of mine . We played it over 5 times. I played the Americans the enitre time and won only once. Very Frustrating experience and sorry to say that my overall outlook is not positive.

I am a seasoned CC/ SL / COH player and think I have a grasp of tactical games but this one has me puzzled on how to win as the americans. Any hints? Maybe I am not approaching the game correctly and I have old tactics dominating my actions.

This is how I see it. I have 15 opportunities (3 units per turn and 5 turns) in this scenario to get 4 units off the board. Not a whole lot of opportunites so every unit moved is critical. I discovered that if I do not get those low rolls and get Germans suppressed -- that I am forced to moving units out in the open where the get chewed up by fresh German units hiding in among the hedges. This causes more delay. Wasted suppression fire hurts causing a wastage of one of those magic and critical "15" opportunities.

The last game and the one game I won -- I ran all my units down the edge of the board --which I thought of being cheesy -- which over whelmed the units he had on that side of the board.

If I move too conservatively and cautiously then there is just not enough time to get 4 units off the board.

What are the corect tactics? Move units out in the open at full movement. Hope for the best and the melee Germans with the surviving american units?

Need help as I want to like the game

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Jim Krohn
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The smart guys in charge at Worthington adjusted the scenario during development. The version I sent to them actually had fewer units. They wanted to make the scenario something that you might want to play more than once or twice. I like it better their way, but I bring this up just to say that most of my experience with this scenario was in a different format.

Remember, in this scenario, you are trying to get by the Germans - not capture territory, not destroy them - just get by them. With that in mind, it calls for different tactics. Try bringing in all of your squads on one side of the main road. Double them up in the hexes because you don't have much to fear from the German fire as long as you are in cover - they are terrible troops and there are not enough of them. Put one squad on the main road and sneak him down as far as you can without getting hurt. If you control the road, you can stop/limit German movement from side to side. If the Germans have all their troops on one side of the road and you guess wrong, if you control the road, you can just switch the axis of attack. This makes it much easier to overwhelm the Germans. Controlling the road can be big.

Also, this is meant to be an intro scenario so don't judge the whole system based on it. There are times in this scenario where you might just have to gamble. The "clock" of needing to get to the invasion causeways puts pressure on you.
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Just one thing to double check: the Germans in this scenario are SECOND line. When I first played, I didn't see this distinction in the units, used FIRST line troops and the Americans couldn't do it.

It is tough but not impossible.
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tntpiper wrote:
Jim

I am a seasoned CC/ SL / COH player and think I have a grasp of tactical games but this one has me puzzled on how to win as the americans. Any hints? Maybe I am not approaching the game correctly and I have old tactics dominating my actions.


I'm still grasping the rules...slow I know but I'm enjoying the journey cool

What I'm interested in is your experience playing this game please?

Obviously not the one of not winning but what was the 'system' like the feel of it playing 5 times?

The game what was it like?

Did it portray a fun gaming experience/realistic feel to it over the other tactical games u have played?

BTW have u played any LocknLoad games at all?

Many thanks



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Jim Krohn
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If you are looking for a comparison to other systems, you can check out this review.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/728052/comparing-bob-to-...
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Erik Nicely
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tntpiper wrote:
Jim

Just bought and the game and played Scenario #1 with a friend of mine . We played it over 5 times. I played the Americans the enitre time and won only once. Very Frustrating experience and sorry to say that my overall outlook is not positive.

I am a seasoned CC/ SL / COH player and think I have a grasp of tactical games but this one has me puzzled on how to win as the americans. Any hints? Maybe I am not approaching the game correctly and I have old tactics dominating my actions.

This is how I see it. I have 15 opportunities (3 units per turn and 5 turns) in this scenario to get 4 units off the board. Not a whole lot of opportunites so every unit moved is critical. I discovered that if I do not get those low rolls and get Germans suppressed -- that I am forced to moving units out in the open where the get chewed up by fresh German units hiding in among the hedges. This causes more delay. Wasted suppression fire hurts causing a wastage of one of those magic and critical "15" opportunities.

The last game and the one game I won -- I ran all my units down the edge of the board --which I thought of being cheesy -- which over whelmed the units he had on that side of the board.

If I move too conservatively and cautiously then there is just not enough time to get 4 units off the board.

What are the corect tactics? Move units out in the open at full movement. Hope for the best and the melee Germans with the surviving american units?

Need help as I want to like the game



I won as the Americans in scenario 1 last night. 2-player Vassal real-time game. Moving in with assault fire worked, the Americans have better proficiency, a 2 is MUCH better than a 4, especially if there's any suppressed Germans, which means they should be able to assault fire (& op fire) better. If you can take advantage of that, suppress some Germans, cause them to move and make those proficiency rolls that's an advantage for the Americans. You'll have to throw a squad of the paras or 2 out there but it should be worth it. If the Germans have to react to your moves, leaving those nice hedgerow positions, moving at all, you get an edge.

As far as moving up the board the road up the middle would most likely be a killing field. The edges are the way to go. Splitting the US paras up into 2 groups, one for each side of the board, worked for me. You can't combine fire anyway so there's no need offensively to keep them close to each other.

That was my 4th game of BoB, 1 f2f, 2 solo (good for learning rules but weird due to concealment & decoys), and that Vassal game.
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First off, Scenario 1 is basically an introduction to the system and is far from the most interesting scenario on offer, so don't hang around there and miss out on what's waiting deeper in the scenario book. That said, the scenario presents an interesting set of challenges to both attacker and defender.

I would echo the recommendations to mass your forces against one side of the board or the other. Despite the tight window you are operating under, you don't have to rush. There is no reason to run squads up adjacent to unsuppressed German units, as that is simply asking to get mowed down. Use assault fires as you enter the board and try to probe the defenses. When you find and suppress a German squad, rush it, as it will have a very difficult time passing its proficiency check to Op Fire you before you can melee it. Punch a hole in the defense and work through it. It's fine if you time things so that you get your squads over on Turn 5. The odds are good that the German deployed fairly evenly and so you are only dealing with two second line squads with limited ability to damage you, and if the German stacked one side with decoys, you have a chance to blow through an empty board. (If you have bad luck, you can quickly swing over to the other side while keeping one squad to cover the road.)

I think the scenario is fairly evenly balanced, but my guess is that someone who is new to the system will have a hard time finding the right tempo for the Americans.
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tntpiper wrote:
This is how I see it. I have 15 opportunities (3 units per turn and 5 turns) in this scenario to get 4 units off the board.

Where do you get this "3 units per turn" limit from? You have 6 units and you can activate them all every turn, surely? (but only 1-3 units per "impulse").
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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Quote:

This is how I see it. I have 15 opportunities (3 units per turn and 5 turns) in this scenario to get 4 units off the board. Not a whole lot of opportunites so every unit moved is critical. I discovered that if I do not get those low rolls and get Germans suppressed -- that I am forced to moving units out in the open where the get chewed up by fresh German units hiding in among the hedges. This causes more delay. Wasted suppression fire hurts causing a wastage of one of those magic and critical "15" opportunities.


I think your problems is here. You can move ALL your units each turn. The operation range is just a limit on how many units can move before its the opponents turn to move.

Brian
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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Quote:
Where do you get this "3 units per turn" limit from? You have 6 units and you can move them all every turn, surely? (but only 1-3 units per "impulse").


Great Danes think alike (and simultaneusly)
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Troy Nichols
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wow, Amazing how one paragraph can change the whole outcome of the game -- easily missed as one attempts to push the counters around and get into the rules.

Yep. You are right on. "Until all units have been used"

Thanks to all for the clarification

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tntpiper wrote:
wow, Amazing how one paragraph can change the whole outcome of the game -- easily missed as one attempts to push the counters around and get into the rules.

Yep. You are right on. "Until all units have been used"

Thanks to all for the clarification



Yeah, that's an important distinction.

The BGG Hive Mind triumphs again!

Well done, question respondents.
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Jim Krohn
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Quote:
I think the scenario is fairly evenly balanced, but my guess is that someone who is new to the system will have a hard time finding the right tempo for the Americans.


That's very wise...

Dynamic Dane Duo, good catch on the number of units! thumbsup

I thought it was completely clear in the rules - use all the units. Looking at it now, it still seems completely clear, but the OP is not the first person to stumble on this. It came up over on Consimworld also. It has probably come up half dozen times since the release. Maybe the rules are clear, but people miss it because of their preconceived notions?

I don't know, but I am putting a clarification sentence in the rules so that it is harder to miss.
 
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Jim Krohn wrote:
I thought it was completely clear in the rules - use all the units. Looking at it now, it still seems completely clear, but the OP is not the first person to stumble on this. It came up over on Consimworld also. It has probably come up half dozen times since the release. Maybe the rules are clear, but people miss it because of their preconceived notions?

I don't know, but I am putting a clarification sentence in the rules so that it is harder to miss.

FWIW, I fumbled this as well but it's not the rules' fault. I attribute it to the fact that I read the rules, let a couple days go by, and then attempted to play by using a play aid someone had posted. I was foggy on the rules and was simply too quick to move from the Ops Phase to the Route Phase when I looked at the play aid.

So I think the rules are perfectly clear. The lesson is here to reread the rules to something right before sitting down to play!
 
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Sean McCormick
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Harkonnen13 wrote:
tntpiper wrote:
Jim

Just bought and the game and played Scenario #1 with a friend of mine . We played it over 5 times. I played the Americans the enitre time and won only once. Very Frustrating experience and sorry to say that my overall outlook is not positive.

I am a seasoned CC/ SL / COH player and think I have a grasp of tactical games but this one has me puzzled on how to win as the americans. Any hints? Maybe I am not approaching the game correctly and I have old tactics dominating my actions.

This is how I see it. I have 15 opportunities (3 units per turn and 5 turns) in this scenario to get 4 units off the board. Not a whole lot of opportunites so every unit moved is critical. I discovered that if I do not get those low rolls and get Germans suppressed -- that I am forced to moving units out in the open where the get chewed up by fresh German units hiding in among the hedges. This causes more delay. Wasted suppression fire hurts causing a wastage of one of those magic and critical "15" opportunities.

The last game and the one game I won -- I ran all my units down the edge of the board --which I thought of being cheesy -- which over whelmed the units he had on that side of the board.

If I move too conservatively and cautiously then there is just not enough time to get 4 units off the board.

What are the corect tactics? Move units out in the open at full movement. Hope for the best and the melee Germans with the surviving american units?

Need help as I want to like the game



I won as the Americans in scenario 1 last night. 2-player Vassal real-time game. Moving in with assault fire worked, the Americans have better proficiency, a 2 is MUCH better than a 4, especially if there's any suppressed Germans, which means they should be able to assault fire (& op fire) better. If you can take advantage of that, suppress some Germans, cause them to move and make those proficiency rolls that's an advantage for the Americans. You'll have to throw a squad of the paras or 2 out there but it should be worth it. If the Germans have to react to your moves, leaving those nice hedgerow positions, moving at all, you get an edge.

As far as moving up the board the road up the middle would most likely be a killing field. The edges are the way to go. Splitting the US paras up into 2 groups, one for each side of the board, worked for me. You can't combine fire anyway so there's no need offensively to keep them close to each other.

That was my 4th game of BoB, 1 f2f, 2 solo (good for learning rules but weird due to concealment & decoys), and that Vassal game.


You can probably get away with splitting your forces, but I don't think it's optimal. Assuming a balanced German set up, you are looking at setting up a 3:2 attack on both sides of the board. If you flood one side and use one squad to interdict along the road, you set up a 5:2 encounter.
 
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Erik Nicely
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seanmac wrote:

You can probably get away with splitting your forces, but I don't think it's optimal. Assuming a balanced German set up, you are looking at setting up a 3:2 attack on both sides of the board. If you flood one side and use one squad to interdict along the road, you set up a 5:2 encounter.


You're probably right and it may not have worked against an experienced player.
 
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