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Subject: X on The Play Die rss

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Mike Stevens
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I realize that when you roll the X on The Play Die that it wipes out any positive yardage for the Offense. Does it also wipe out the results of the Black Defensive Die? Does the X only come into play on the first roll or would it wipe out the 2nd half of a Breakaway roll if you rolled it after you rolled the first Breakaway?
 
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Garry Rice
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If an X is rolled, it's a broken play and its considered no gain (on both sides of the ball).

Do note that when rolling for breakaways, subsequent rolls you ONLY look for additional breakaways. Other symbols rolled have on meaning, i.e. it's only on the first roll (as you mentioned).
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Mike Stevens
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So once you have rolled the first Breakaway, there is no chance for a turnover or penalty, ONLY more Breakaways? Does the Defensive player continue to roll his black die for each additional Breakaway you roll?
 
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Frank DiLorenzo
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Omahavice wrote:
So once you have rolled the first Breakaway, there is no chance for a turnover or penalty, ONLY more Breakaways? Does the Defensive player continue to roll his black die for each additional Breakaway you roll?


Yes and yes. That is correct
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Dick Butler
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rnrgames wrote:
Omahavice wrote:
So once you have rolled the first Breakaway, there is no chance for a turnover or penalty, ONLY more Breakaways? Does the Defensive player continue to roll his black die for each additional Breakaway you roll?


Yes and yes. That is correct


With all due respect to the game's creator(s), I can only say (as they say in those NFL pre-game shows), "Come ON, man!" If you want the feel of "real" pro football, don't ignore the Turnover and Penalty chances on the Breakaway rolls. Ignore only the Hail, Mary, and X. How many times in a real game have you seen a "breakaway" on a run or pass called back because of a penalty or lost because of a fumble. . . Or EXTENDED because of a stupid defensive penalty? Frequently, right?! I see no reason why these exciting possibilities should be eliminated from game play in 1st and Goal.

Not only that, I'd eliminate the Black Defensive die roll entirely on the Breakaway rolls, and here's why: Consider all the red and black result combinations that come up in this game, most of which end up with little or no gain, potentially with a big loss, as much as -10 yards on the worst combination. On a "breakaway"! Again I say "Come ON, man!"

Finally, inside the 10 yard line, perhaps the initial Breakaway result on the Play die should be ignored altogether (I'm not sure yet). I can't stop tinkering with this game. I mean that in a positive, hopeful way.



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Mike Stevens
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gamerbut wrote:
rnrgames wrote:
Omahavice wrote:
So once you have rolled the first Breakaway, there is no chance for a turnover or penalty, ONLY more Breakaways? Does the Defensive player continue to roll his black die for each additional Breakaway you roll?


Yes and yes. That is correct


With all due respect to the game's creator(s), I can only say (as they say in those NFL pre-game shows), "Come ON, man!" If you want the feel of "real" pro football, don't ignore the Turnover and Penalty chances on the Breakaway rolls. Ignore only the Hail, Mary, and X. How many times in a real game have you seen a "breakaway" on a run or pass called back because of a penalty or lost because of a fumble. . . Or EXTENDED because of a stupid defensive penalty? Frequently, right?! I see no reason why these exciting possibilities should be eliminated from game play in 1st and Goal.

Not only that, I'd eliminate the Black Defensive die roll entirely on the Breakaway rolls, and here's why: Consider all the red and black result combinations that come up in this game, most of which end up with little or no gain, potentially with a big loss, as much as -10 yards on the worst combination. On a "breakaway"! Again I say "Come ON, man!"

Finally, inside the 10 yard line, perhaps the initial Breakaway result on the Play die should be ignored altogether (I'm not sure yet). I can't stop tinkering with this game. I mean that in a positive, hopeful way.





I agree with you Dick. We played our first 2 games not knowing that only the Breakaway icon counted for anything on the Play Die after the first Breakaway is rolled. I had a 47 yard gain after 3 Breakaways and then rolled the dreaded T for possible Turnover. The Referee
Die was rolled and the 2nd T came up indicating my runner had just fumbled away a possible 47 yard gain. You should have heard my buddy screaming in joy after that play. In another game my daughter had gained 52 yards on Breakaways, then rolled the Penlalty icon. I rolled the Referee Die and Penalty Yardage Die. Oh YES, Offensive Penalty for 10 yards, repeat second down and wipe out that nice little 52 yard gain missy That is what football is all about baby.

I also think that the Offensive player should have the choice to not re-roll the Play Die after the first Breakaway if he dosnt want to. Basically he can stop rolling anytime he wants to if he doesnt want to chance it. Think of it as a runner going out of bounds instead of trying to break another tackle.

I think the more that people play this, the more variants and house rules will come out and you can adjust the game to your liking.
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Peter Williams
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Omahavice wrote:
I realize that when you roll the X on The Play Die that it wipes out any positive yardage for the Offense. Does it also wipe out the results of the Black Defensive Die? Does the X only come into play on the first roll or would it wipe out the 2nd half of a Breakaway roll if you rolled it after you rolled the first Breakaway?
I believe it states that it negates the 'coloured' yardage dice. The good thing is that as it's your game, do whatever you want to do (just make sure you tell your opponents otherwise that's just unfair!)
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Christopher Bourassa
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I'm not so sure I agree. The rules say to ignore the colored yardage dice. In the rules, the yardage dice are indicated as is the defense die (clearly not meant to be a yardage die) so I interpret this as you still count the black defense die.

To me, this makes sense from a logical point, too. The play was broken up (handoff was botched, bad snap, etc.) and so often the offense loses a few yards. Or, it could gain a few yards even though the play was broken up.
 
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Frank DiLorenzo
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Correct, black is indeed a color and one of the "coloured yardage dice"
 
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Stephen Glenn
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Hey, play with the rules that make it feel the way you want it to feel.

But the *official* rules are:

(1) an "x" on the play die negates every other die, including black.
(2) after a breakaway is rolled, ignore every other side on the play die *except* the breakaway
(3) the black die is rolled during all breakaway rolls

More thoughts on the above

(1) okay, I don't really have any more thoughts about (1)

(2) the spirit of the breakaway is that it is a *good* thing which balances the effect of the "x". Sure, it's realistic that you could fumble after a breakaway. I don't believe the game is hurt if you decide to play that way.

(3) seems like a popular variant is to ignore the black die on subsequent breakaway rolls. Again, I can see this due to my aforementioned comment on the spirit of the breakaway. But the value of the black die is factored into the overall potential yardage of each play (does that make sense?) Yes, occassionally you can go backwards on a breakaway -- which is a bummer and feels counter-spirit. And I guess in a way it is, which is why I wouldn't argue with an opponent who wanted to play with this variant.

Allow me to conclude by paraprhasing my friend, Alan Moon: This is *your* game now. Play it how you want.

Stephen

ps: I am very honored to be the recipient of a COME ON MAN!
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Bruno Benthien
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I like to add that not allowing the breakaway die roll to count inside the 20(the red zone) is pretty niffty--it's harder to make yardage there so it works and I'll be adding that to my house rules.
 
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Greg Lott
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bennythejet wrote:
I like to add that not allowing the breakaway die roll to count inside the 20(the red zone) is pretty niffty--it's harder to make yardage there so it works and I'll be adding that to my house rules.


I disagree... You see teams break long runs all the time inside the 20. Lots of 10-20 yard TD runs in football. The red zone is tougher to pass in for sure; corners can press without worrying about getting burned deep. And that helps against the run to a degree, but... proof is in the pudding. Good running teams run just as well inside the 20 as they do outside.
 
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James
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rnrgames wrote:
Correct, black is indeed a color and one of the "coloured yardage dice"


On page 3 of the rulebook, under "Brief Description of Dice", there is the following:

RED IVORY BRON - Yardage Dice: These are mostly for the running plays
YELLOW BLUE GREEN - Yardage Dice: These are mostly for thepassing plays
BLACK Defense Die: This die is rolled by the Defensive player on every play....


If a second edition rulebook is released, It would be easier for me to comprehend the designer's intent if the Black die was also labeled "Yardage" or "Yardage - Defense".

Perhaps a broken play result should be "if total yardage is positive, no gain. If total yardage is negative, lose the indicated yards."

Also I agree with Dick that the heartache of encountering a turnover or penalty after a breakaway is entirely in the spirit of football. And that taking away the black die may be a nice balance to giving the defense two more methods of stopping a breakaway.

Mike: I hope you moved the ball 47 yards downfield before changing hands. If nothing else, you could view the outcome as a good punt.


More and more this game seems like it should come with 'family rules' and 'tournament rules'.
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