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Subject: Oooohh Spain is in trouble. rss

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Zé Mário
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http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/01/05/1539230/us-threatens-...

Quote:
SharkLaser writes "In a leaked letter sent to Spain's outgoing President, the US ambassador warned that if Spain didn't pass SOPA-like file-sharing site blocking law, Spain would risk being put into United States trade blocklist. United States government interference in Spain's intellectual property laws have been suspected for a long time, and now the recent leaks of diplomatic cables confirm this. Apart from the cables leaked earlier, now another cable dated December 12th says U.S. expresses "deep concern" over the failure to implement SOPA-style censorship law in the country. 'The government has unfortunately failed to finish the job for political reasons, to the detriment of the reputation and economy of Spain,' read the letter. Racing against the clock in the final days of the government, Solomont had one last push. 'I encourage the Government of Spain to implement the Sinde Law immediately to safeguard the reputation of Spain as an innovative country that does what it says it will, and as a country that breeds confidence,' he wrote."


Pathetic.
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CHAPEL
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Not that this ain't true, but is there a more reputable link to the news than torrent freak?
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Aaron Potter
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Where's the trouble? Their need to comply with copyright law if they want economic benefit of intellectual property?
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Copyright law is complied with. Sinde Law is about unilateral, preemptive blocking and fines for online streaming webpages and the like, launched by industry watch panels instead of judges.
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Zé Mário
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MWChapel wrote:
Not that this ain't true, but is there a more reputable link to the news than torrent freak?


Just follow the link in that article. http://www.elpais.com/articulo/cultura/EE/UU/afeo/Zapatero/d...
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Aaron Potter
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So industry watchdogs will police their own, instead of the government doing it.

And this is a bad thing?
 
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Troy Adlington
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Most interesting is a US ambassador acting as a mouthpiece for corporate concerns, and aggressively so.
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potterama wrote:
So industry watchdogs will police their own, instead of the government doing it.

And this is a bad thing?


Well, yes, since private-sector enforcement of regulatory policy is traditionally something that does not work.
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Aaron Potter
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mightygodking wrote:
potterama wrote:
So industry watchdogs will police their own, instead of the government doing it.

And this is a bad thing?


Well, yes, since private-sector enforcement of regulatory policy is traditionally something that does not work.


Ah. So you think Spain's govt should be enforcing the crackdown on piracy. Makes sense, as they're the beneficiaries of legitimate IP trade.

Can't tax crooks.
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Tony Chen
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potterama wrote:
Where's the trouble? Their need to comply with copyright law if they want economic benefit of intellectual property?
I was going to comment on the hubris of US embassies but apparently at least one of their citizens is the same.

It's because of American hubris that allowed Daniel Ortega (a communist) to become president (read dictator) of Nicaragua.
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Aaron Potter
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American hubris also freed Western and central Europe from fascism, Kuwait from Iraq, and the entire world from a radio spectrum of endless oom-pah music.

Beside the point, anyway. It's not hubris to tell people that if they provide a harbor for thieves, then they can no longer expect the benefits of honest trade. That's simple logical consequence.
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Tony Chen
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potterama wrote:
American hubris also freed Western and central Europe from fascism, Kuwait from Iraq, and the entire world from a radio spectrum of endless oom-pah music.

Beside the point, anyway. It's not hubris to tell people that if they provide a harbor for thieves, then they can no longer expect the benefits of honest trade. That's simple logical consequence.
Right, because what is fair and what isn't is black and white, and this whole thing has nothing to do with money.

I take it you support SOPA in your own country?
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Pedro Silva
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potterama wrote:
Beside the point, anyway. It's not hubris to tell people that if they provide a harbor for thieves, then they can no longer expect the benefits of honest trade. That's simple logical consequence.


If that were that simple no country would benefit from honest trade as all countries harbour thieves.

Also, SOPA has no relation whatsoever to theft.
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Vlad Taltos
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potterama wrote:
American hubris also freed Western and central Europe from fascism, Kuwait from Iraq, and the entire world from a radio spectrum of endless oom-pah music.

Beside the point, anyway. It's not hubris to tell people that if they provide a harbor for thieves, then they can no longer expect the benefits of honest trade. That's simple logical consequence.


Don't call it American hubris, it is Corporate hubris. I support the ideal of IP protection, I don't torrent or bemoan the loss of Napster, etc. But to replace the rule of law with corporate policy is wrong. The SOPA is highly un-American.

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Aaron Potter
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Having thieves in your country doesn't mean you harbor them. Avoiding laws which prevent theft is.

 
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Pedro Silva
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potterama wrote:
Having thieves in your country doesn't mean you harbor them. Avoiding laws which prevent theft is.


Spain, like most European countries, already have laws that prevent theft. Even if they didn't, the US has no business in meddling with what legislation another sovereign country decides to put in place. Especially if that is done through coercion and threats that, if carried through, would bring no benefit to the citizens of either country.
This is a simple case of a politician getting paid by corporations to do some dirty work.

It's a shame the Spanish government has no spine or respect for their citizens. What worries me is how much the Portuguese government probably has already lowered its pants...
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Aaron Potter
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Mallgur wrote:

Spain, like most European countries, already have laws that prevent theft.


Apparently inadequate ones.

Quote:
Even if they didn't, the US has no business in meddling with what legislation another sovereign country decides to put in place.


The US has a vested interest in protecting the IP of its citizens. It is not threatening to invade Spain, or bribe Spain's officials...it is offering, quite logically, that if it cannot guarantee its citizens' property will be protected, then it will restrict trade with that country. That's economics.

Quote:
Especially if that is done through coercion and threats that, if carried through, would bring no benefit to the citizens of either country.


On the contrary, both countries would benefit from reduced piracy.

Quote:

It's a shame the Spanish government has no spine or respect for their citizens.


Nope. Just its criminals.

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J
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potterama wrote:
Just its criminals.

What if in actuality the very criminals are the law makers trying to impose their hypocritical will on another sovereign nation?

Congress Plugs Anti-Piracy Legislation By Day, Pirates Porn by Night

Who knows, they may very well have violated some hot Spanish IP...
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Tony Chen
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potterama wrote:
Having thieves in your country doesn't mean you harbor them. Avoiding laws which prevent theft is.

Do you support SOPA in the states? Aldie doesn't. Do you think he wants to harbor thieves?

Man where were you in that other thread?
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Kenny Jenkins
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potterama wrote:


Quote:
Especially if that is done through coercion and threats that, if carried through, would bring no benefit to the citizens of either country.


On the contrary, both countries would benefit from reduced piracy.



most independent research suggests there is next to no effect.

So SOPA like laws are a net cost to the economy, good for lawyers though.
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Troymk1 wrote:
Most interesting is a US ambassador acting as a mouthpiece for corporate concerns, and aggressively so.


That's hardly new, for any society.
The rich and the powerful protect themselves.
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Tony Chen
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muntmeister wrote:
potterama wrote:


Quote:
Especially if that is done through coercion and threats that, if carried through, would bring no benefit to the citizens of either country.


On the contrary, both countries would benefit from reduced piracy.



most independent research suggests there is next to no effect.

So SOPA like laws are a net cost to the economy, good for lawyers though.
Potterama knows more about Spanish economy than the Spanish government does. Spain has no sense of justice, no reputation left; Potterama does. Not hubris he says.
 
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Aaron Potter
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muntmeister wrote:
most independent research suggests there is next to no effect.
So SOPA like laws are a net cost to the economy, good for lawyers though.


I would be interested in links to that research. On the previous thread discussin this topic, no such research was forwarded. Indeed, there was plenty demonstrating the significant costs of IP theft. So please, feel free to link away.

drunkenKOALA wrote:
Potterama knows more about Spanish economy than the Spanish government does. Spain has no sense of justice, no reputation left; Potterama does. Not hubris he says.


You'll notice that the entire point of the original article is that the Spanish government is apparently going to go through with this legislation in order to protect its economic interests. They did not call me and ask my opinion. Do try to stick with arguments instead of personal attacks, hmm?

 
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Tony Chen
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You are right, they didn't ask your opinion. And they weren't going to pass the law until the US threatened them with economic interests. Your point?

You still haven't answered my question. Do you support SOPA?
 
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