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Subject: Clarification please! rss

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Thierry Camprubi
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Réformation : "Missionaries neutralize other missionaries in the new world"

How do you understand this tile?
If my opponent has it, I understand that when I arrive with a missionary in a colony where my opponent has already a missionary, I can't add the extra colonist right? Before this expension, we used to replace the just arrived missionary by two colonists in order not to be short on missionaries...
Now, it's necessary to keep the missionnaries in the colonies From the beginning of the game in case we get the reformation tile later right?

Papal edict : "Owner and another player each place two free colonists."

Should we understand each turn?? I think yes but why isn' it specified?
A one time use sounds a but weird imho. What about you?

Spoils of war : do they count as capital buildings? I would say yes as "Inca empire" does



 
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John Van Wagoner
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as for: "Papal edict : "Owner and another player each place two free colonists." Should we understand each turn??"....we play NO, just a one-time deal...to strong otherwise...(to me at least)
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SERGIO PERIS-MENCHETA
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une seule fois!!! sinon c'est trop fort!!
 
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John Van Wagoner
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LUDOVIKO wrote:
une seule fois!!! sinon c'est trop fort!!

????
 
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Thierry Camprubi
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John_VW wrote:
LUDOVIKO wrote:
une seule fois!!! sinon c'est trop fort!!

????


He says "Only one time or it's too strong"
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Brian Mc Cabe
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Reformation: If you take your missionary back to Europe, then, yes, another player can bring a colonist with him if he puts a missionary in the colony your missionary vacated.

Papal Edict: We played the other night, and one of the players looked up the discussion on The Geek, and the consensus was split. We played every turn.

There are tiles that specify "immediately place . . . " or, in the rules, have the phrase "one time only." Neither the tile nor the rules have this caveat, so we played every turn.

It's probably the most powerful tile in the game, but until there's an official ruling from Glenn, I'm going to encourage that it be every turn.

Better get those soldiers to the New World, or you're going to be in a world of hurt. Or don't use a colonist strategy so that the owner of the building chooses you.

As a matter of fact, there's another building in the expansion that allows you to immediately place three colonists. There' no question it's just once, which strengthens my opinion Papal Edict is permanent.

Your missionaries are converting large numbers of the population in areas you control, who are going to be faithful to your nation and not some johnny-come-lately.

Brian



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Thierry Camprubi
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apatheticexecutioner wrote:
Better get those soldiers to the New World, or you're going to be in a world of hurt


Thank you for your answer.
Are you sure that you can send specialists? I read the tile and I think that you are allowed to put 2 "colonists" only.
There is a civilization tile that gives 2 colonists each turn, but the owner has to send the colonists to the new world if he wants them there. The papal edict is the same, but to counterbalance the fact that the colonists are directly placed in the new world, you have to give this opportunity to somebody else. Any thought?
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It does seem that Reformation would make you want to leave your missionaries in the colonies, though I think this would only matter to the player who ends up with this particular building. I will advise my co-players to keep them there until the building has either been purchased or age II has passed without it turning up. I'll have to break my habit of automatically "cashing in" my missionaries for two colonists.

I agree that the Papal Edict should be used each and every Capital Buildings Pahse... it seems that if it were intended to be a one time use, it would say so (like other one-use tiles.) And compared to Overpopulation, limiting this to a one-time use makes it far, far too weak. The balance seems to come from both the shatred nature of the reward (the owner must pick another player who also gets to place two colonists), and the fact that this is a stage II building (and thus has fewer rounds to function.)

[And no, I'm sure this does not apply to specialists... I'm sure Brian, posting above, meant one should send soldiers by other means.]

Finally, Spoils of War tiles are listed as capital buildings, and it would only make sense to count them as such even when "spent."
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John Van Wagoner
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in my opinion, this tile...if used every turn...would be way too important compared to any other tile/advantage in the game, and alone would change all the good planning/strategy already done...we will continue to play as a "one time" deal regardless of what developer intended...and will also play that only colonists (and not any specialists) go with the missionary as well...we also do not use the tile that lets someone steal 2 discoveries from another player (in age 3)(tile should have been left out of game); just seems to reward lazy players...and we now have 7 plays in with the expansion, and with all of us having been AOE fans for years, are really enjoying it as we play it...(so i guess that's what really counts anyhow)...
 
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JT Call
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John_VW wrote:
in my opinion, this tile...if used every turn...would be way too important compared to any other tile/advantage in the game, and alone would change all the good planning/strategy already done...we will continue to play as a "one time" deal regardless of what developer intended...and will also play that only colonists (and not any specialists) go with the missionary as well...we also do not use the tile that lets someone steal 2 discoveries from another player (in age 3)(tile should have been left out of game); just seems to reward lazy players...and we now have 7 plays in with the expansion, and with all of us having been AOE fans for years, are really enjoying it as we play it...(so i guess that's what really counts anyhow)...


Why not play Papal Edict as an every turn ability, but only add it to the Capital Building draw pile in rounds 5 or 6 (it still might not come up, and if it does, it's effect will be more muted because it can't be used as often).

It seems to me like Papal Edict should be an every turn ability but that it's simply too powerful if a player gains that building in Turn 4.
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Brian Mc Cabe
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tcamprubi wrote:
apatheticexecutioner wrote:
Better get those soldiers to the New World, or you're going to be in a world of hurt


Thank you for your answer.
Are you sure that you can send specialists? I read the tile and I think that you are allowed to put 2 "colonists" only.
There is a civilization tile that gives 2 colonists each turn, but the owner has to send the colonists to the new world if he wants them there. The papal edict is the same, but to counterbalance the fact that the colonists are directly placed in the new world, you have to give this opportunity to somebody else. Any thought?


With Papal Edict, they've got to be colonists. When I referred to getting soldiers to the New World, I was speaking in general terms for overall game play.

With Papal Edict, it's best to give the two extra colonists to the last-place player or a player who isn't competing with you for area control some place. It's a very powerful tile and I'm by no means going to complain if it's one-time use. As a matter of fact, if our group plays again, I'll reask the question as to which it should be -- one time or every turn -- now that we've seen it.

Brian
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Brian Mc Cabe
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John_VW wrote:
in my opinion, this tile...if used every turn...would be way too important compared to any other tile/advantage in the game, and alone would change all the good planning/strategy already done...we will continue to play as a "one time" deal regardless of what developer intended...and will also play that only colonists (and not any specialists) go with the missionary as well...we also do not use the tile that lets someone steal 2 discoveries from another player (in age 3)(tile should have been left out of game); just seems to reward lazy players...and we now have 7 plays in with the expansion, and with all of us having been AOE fans for years, are really enjoying it as we play it...(so i guess that's what really counts anyhow)...


The tile that allows the owner to steal two tiles is another powerful tile; although, looking at your post, your group misread it. The owner steals one discovery tile from two different players. It's still a plus nine or ten to the owning player; but, it doesn't punish only one other player.

Brian

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Steve Duff
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Papal edict has to be every turn. It's Catholicism, massive family growth is what we do!
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Mike Smith
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I think Papal Edict has to be every turn. Its too weak otherwise. Its strength is tempered by the fact that it is only available on turn 4, 5 or 6, and by the fact that you must assist somebody else as well.
Thematically you should probably forbid a player to own both Reformation and Papal Edict, or to give the extra 2 colonists to a player with Reformation.
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Thierry Camprubi
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May be that the base game is worth the effort to try to modify/balance the new builder expansion assuming that we won't have the official answers we request for...
Those of us who are likely to play this game often can try different things several times like using a 6th slot for the builder, using Papal Edict each turn, etc.
We could conpulse in a special thread the results and create a non official FAQ from there...
Any thought ?
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Anders Berfner
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Hi,
I have to add a few questions to this as well.

The Spanish ability: +$5 per successful discovery. Is that for every discovery or just your own?
The French ability: +1 Colonist in each newly discovered Colony. Is that for every discovered colony or just your own?

This discussion about what a colonist is, isn't that obvious? Can it be something eles then a regular worker? I mean otherwise the British ability +2 colonist / turn must be quite awsome!

We played a game yesterday and then the Smuggler turned up. We played with it every turn and it worked well.
 
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JT Call
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Beffe wrote:
Hi,
I have to add a few questions to this as well.

The Spanish ability: +$5 per successful discovery. Is that for every discovery or just your own?


Just your own. Not sure about the rest of your questions, though.
 
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John Van Wagoner
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Beffe wrote:
Hi,
I have to add a few questions to this as well.

The Spanish ability: +$5 per successful discovery. Is that for every discovery or just your own?
The French ability: +1 Colonist in each newly discovered Colony. Is that for every discovered colony or just your own?

This discussion about what a colonist is, isn't that obvious? Can it be something eles then a regular worker? I mean otherwise the British ability +2 colonist / turn must be quite awsome!

We played a game yesterday and then the Smuggler turned up. We played with it every turn and it worked well.

- just your own ($5/turn if spanish)
- we play french get +1 col (only a col; nobody else) for EVERY discovery (although my guess is they meant it to be for only french disc)
- a "colonist" is a regular worker...if you run low on any specialists during the game you can "swap-out" a specialist you have in the new world and replace him with a simple "colonist" if needed
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Anders Berfner
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talusproteus wrote:

Just your own. Not sure about the rest of your questions, though.

I would argue the difference. If you only get 5 buck when you make a colonialisation it would not be worth anything. How many colonies can you make? More than 3? Yeah..$15.

John_VW wrote:

- we play french get +1 col (only a col; nobody else) for EVERY discovery (although my guess is they meant it to be for only french disc)

About the French ability I would say that it is not imbalanced if you would get a free colonist for EVERY discovery. You would just get one more colonist (same as the one who made the discovery) and you will have an advantage in getting the resource. No, to me the French ability must mean every discovery.

John_VW wrote:

- a "colonist" is a regular worker...if you run low on any specialists during the game you can "swap-out" a specialist you have in the new world and replace him with a simple "colonist" if needed

Sorry, don't mind my question. I must have been tiered yesterday.


I guess you have comments?
 
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Mike Smith
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To moderate the effect of Papal Edict (I have come around to the idea that it is too strong if each turn, but think its too waek if once only) use the following:

It only applies for the rest of Age II.

When it emerges will thus affect its usefulness even more, and it will never be worth more than 3 uses.
 
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