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Subject: Component Quality rss

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G. Gambill
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I was wondering if anyone else was a little surprised by the component quality in this game? The player boards are so much thinner and smaller than Le Havre or Agricola. The decks are made to match, but I always liked the full size cards in the above games and was a little surprised at the "mini" nature of this game. I also was a little on the appalled side about the paper quality of the player aid. It's like ricepaper. I'm just a little surprised in general and wonder if this would have been the case if this was still solely Zev's company. It just does not feel like what he would do. I know nothing of this, of course, but with the sale last year I have been watching to see if there would be changes in the Z-Man brand. Is this a change? I'm not sure, but thought I'd put it out there in case anyone else was wondering the same thing as I. I see nothing in the box that is a game breaker (I love Glory to Rome despite it's much ballyhooed production values), but it does not seem to match what I have seen with Z-Man in the past.
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Andrew Bond
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ggambill wrote:
I was wondering if anyone else was a little surprised by the component quality in this game?


Yes, I am quite appalled at the quality of the components (but no the game itself). It will be think twice before buying a Z-Man Game in the future - other companies are providing much better value for money in that regard (see Ninjato for example),

I have now laminated the tissue-paper player aids, but I don't expect to pay a high price for a game that immediately needs fixing.
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John Shepherd
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ggambill wrote:
I was wondering if anyone else was a little surprised by the component quality in this game?


Yes, I vaguely recall this point being raised once or twice.

whistle
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Blue Fox
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I think "appalled" might be too strong a word here ( think first world problems, I got 99 problems and thin paper is one of them, that sounds a bit much)

Disappointed is a better word, perhaps frustrated given the expectation of a Z-Man /lookout/ Uwe Rosenberg game. Yes the player boards are thin, the player aid is laughable thin.

BUT - the game is still great and so is Z-Man/ Lookout / Uwe. I think after alot of people say, "hey I'll pay an extra 10$ for stuff that lasts or buy an upgrade kit if available". They being great companies will listen, by either fixing the next printing or offering replacements/upgrades etc.

I personally have had a great experience with Z-Man (anyone get a FREE pandemic deck to match "On the Brink"?, yes FREE). Plus the animeeple debate of years gone past?

So yes, disappointment very much. Appalled or not supporting Z-Man/Lookout or not still enjoying Uwe's games. - Not even close.
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Jonathan Takagi
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geocentrix wrote:
Yes, I am quite appalled at the quality of the components (but no the game itself). It will be think twice before buying a Z-Man Game in the future - other companies are providing much better value for money in that regard (see Ninjato for example),


Except that Z-Man also produced Ninjato!
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Tadeu Zubaran
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Everyone who cares for component quality, the German Lookout games version has the same (lack) of quality.

For me it was a deal breaker.
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Blue Fox
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tkzubaran wrote:
Everyone who cares for component quality, the German Lookout games version has the same (lack) of quality.

For me it was a deal breaker.


Sorry to hear that, as this is a great game and excellent addition to both Agricola and Le Havre. I hope that doesn't keep others from an otherwise excellent experience ( excluding boards ).
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Andy Andersen
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bluef0x wrote:
tkzubaran wrote:
Everyone who cares for component quality, the German Lookout games version has the same (lack) of quality.

For me it was a deal breaker.


Sorry to hear that, as this is a great game and excellent addition to both Agricola and Le Havre. I hope that doesn't keep others from an otherwise excellent experience ( excluding boards ).


Not me. Ordered. Game play is paramount
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G. Gambill
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MrShep wrote:
ggambill wrote:
I was wondering if anyone else was a little surprised by the component quality in this game?


Yes, I vaguely recall this point being raised or twice.

whistle


Sorry John, before I posted I looked at all postings in the general forum and did not see that this had already been discussed. The game was just released this last week here in the USA, so this was my first chance to see it and check it out for myself. If I had seen a previous post, I would have just added to it rather than make a new one.
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G. Gambill
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jtakagi wrote:
geocentrix wrote:
Yes, I am quite appalled at the quality of the components (but no the game itself). It will be think twice before buying a Z-Man Game in the future - other companies are providing much better value for money in that regard (see Ninjato for example),


Except that Z-Man also produced Ninjato!


That is odd isn't it? The only other Z-Man game that I ever had with component problems was Genji. Card stock was terrible, and the counters almost all ripped when punched. Other than that, Z-Man has always had the highest quality.
 
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G. Gambill
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Orangemoose wrote:
bluef0x wrote:
tkzubaran wrote:
Everyone who cares for component quality, the German Lookout games version has the same (lack) of quality.

For me it was a deal breaker.


Sorry to hear that, as this is a great game and excellent addition to both Agricola and Le Havre. I hope that doesn't keep others from an otherwise excellent experience ( excluding boards ).


Not me. Ordered. Game play is paramount


I agree Andy. Like I said, I love Glory to Rome because the game is just so much fun to play. It's just that I have been wondering what the effects of a Filosophia (did I spell that right?) takeover would be for the Z-Man brand. I wonder if Ninjato was in the pipeline before the takeover? Is this the first truly "new" release since the takeover? I'm not bashing Filosophia, just trying to test the waters by being observant. There may be NO connection, but it was out of the normal in my experience, which prompted the post. If the game plays as well as I have heard, I will probably be able to overlook any of these little issues and just be thrilled with another deep game to play from Mr. Rosenberg.
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William Crispin
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As far as I know this is the same print run from the same factory as the rest of this game's release. It is not as if Z-Man did a separate run. Whatever limitations are in the initial Lookout run are still present other than some of the initial mis-cuting of the sheets that was caught at Essen.

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Andy Andersen
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ggambill wrote:
Orangemoose wrote:
bluef0x wrote:
tkzubaran wrote:
Everyone who cares for component quality, the German Lookout games version has the same (lack) of quality.

For me it was a deal breaker.


Sorry to hear that, as this is a great game and excellent addition to both Agricola and Le Havre. I hope that doesn't keep others from an otherwise excellent experience ( excluding boards ).


Not me. Ordered. Game play is paramount


I agree Andy. Like I said, I love Glory to Rome because the game is just so much fun to play. It's just that I have been wondering what the effects of a Filosophia (did I spell that right?) takeover would be for the Z-Man brand. I wonder if Ninjato was in the pipeline before the takeover? Is this the first truly "new" release since the takeover? I'm not bashing Filosophia, just trying to test the waters by being observant. There may be NO connection, but it was out of the normal in my experience, which prompted the post. If the game plays as well as I have heard, I will probably be able to overlook any of these little issues and just be thrilled with another deep game to play from Mr. Rosenberg.


I wonder what the takeover portends also.
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G. Gambill
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wwscrispin wrote:
As far as I know this is the same print run from the same factory as the rest of this game's release. It is not as if Z-Man did a separate run. Whatever limitations are in the initial Lookout run are still present other than some of the initial mis-cuting of the sheets that was caught at Essen.



Ah, so this may be a Lookout issue? If there was not a separate print run by Z-Man, then they had no control over this at all. Thanks for the heads up. If that's true, then the disappointment should be directed at them, not Z-Man/Filosophia.
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I would love it if they -- someone -- reprinted and provided replacements for the laughably thin player aids. Even something on par with the player boards would be an immense improvement. For me, the player boards themselves seemed perfectly serviceable.


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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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Geezus. The takeover has NOTHING to do with this problem. The lack of decent printing services in GERMANY seems to be the source. Hanno from Lookout Games has said REPEATEDLY that the component quality that he ordered is not what he got and that he is taking active steps to correct any future printings.

Give it a rest, seriously. I can certainly understand why people may not want to buy a game with less quality than what they have come to expect from German games. I'm not one of them. I paid a premium to have the English version of this game imported to me early, and I've gotten more plays out of it, both by me and my gaming buddies, than any other game I played last year, it's that good.
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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Adverb wrote:
I would love it if they -- someone -- reprinted and provided replacements for the laughably thin player aids. Even something on par with the player boards would be an immense improvement. For me, the player boards themselves seemed perfectly serviceable.




Take them to Fedex Office/Staples/etc and get them laminated if you don't have a laminator.
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Ken Hill
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jschlickbernd wrote:
Hanno from Lookout Games has said REPEATEDLY that the component quality that he ordered is not what he got and that he is taking active steps to correct any future printings.

He has? You got a link for me?

I usually don't whine about this kind of thing but now that I have played the game, the component quality is a distraction. I don't like to have to constantly fiddle with my player board because cards keep sliding off the warped board. If he is going to update game, hopefully fix packs will be made available.
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jschlickbernd wrote:
Adverb wrote:
I would love it if they -- someone -- reprinted and provided replacements for the laughably thin player aids. Even something on par with the player boards would be an immense improvement. For me, the player boards themselves seemed perfectly serviceable.




Take them to Fedex Office/Staples/etc and get them laminated if you don't have a laminator.

Yeah, I could do that. I tried making copies on heavy cardstock, but that didn't work out. Maybe I'll try again.

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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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I wish like hell he'd just create one single thread where he explains this. He posted twice about it in this thread.

He hasn't said that he is going to provide any fixes however to the existing customers. You need to ask him about that. I didn't have boards that warped noticeably or maybe I did and now that it's been played about 30 times they don't warp anymore, don't recall sorry.
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Clyde W
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It's confusing to me why you're upset that people are upset at the component quality... Very strange. Are you an investor in Lookout or Z-Man?
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Tadeu Zubaran
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bluef0x wrote:
tkzubaran wrote:
Everyone who cares for component quality, the German Lookout games version has the same (lack) of quality.

For me it was a deal breaker.


Sorry to hear that, as this is a great game and excellent addition to both Agricola and Le Havre. I hope that doesn't keep others from an otherwise excellent experience ( excluding boards ).


I actually played it once. I liked the game. It reminded me a lot of Le Havre (as many people pointed out).

I think the changes in the resource accumulation (wheel) and the feeding (I see the settling as a form of feeding, they are the same but psychologically the settling feels better and more thematic)changes are very nice. I also like the turn order scheme, it has that rotating governor feel of Puerto Rico but you never spend too much time without playing (like it happens in PR after you are governor).

I also think it is different enough from the other two hits from Uwe to warrant a place with them.

That said, I like my games to have nice components, I think it is a part of the experience, and I would consider O&L for the correct price (I would ratter pay more for a good production) but the way it is, and with the added problem of the badly cut counters it was crossed of my wish list. It also affected my grade on the game because the lack of quality heavily detracted from the experience for me.
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Blue Fox
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tkzubaran wrote:


That said, I like my games to have nice components, I think it is a part of the experience, and I would consider O&L for the correct price (I would ratter pay more for a good production) but the way it is, and with the added problem of the badly cut counters it was crossed of my wish list. It also affected my grade on the game because the lack of quality heavily detracted from the experience for me.


I didn't have any trouble with the counters, just the boards. Perhaps a second run will fix your concerns....
 
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Tadeu Zubaran
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clydeiii wrote:
It's confusing to me why you're upset that people are upset at the component quality... Very strange. Are you an investor in Lookout or Z-Man?


This is quite common in bgg (not in this game's forum, at least yet). It is a sect mentality, there are some games that if you go to its forum to point out any problem with them, you will see first some passive aggressive responses and then it will probably escalate into the nerd equivalent of a pack of rabid dogs attack.

It is like going to the park, looking for the ugliest kid and telling the kids parent that they could sell the kid to a circus.
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Derek Thompson
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ggambill wrote:
jtakagi wrote:
geocentrix wrote:
Yes, I am quite appalled at the quality of the components (but no the game itself). It will be think twice before buying a Z-Man Game in the future - other companies are providing much better value for money in that regard (see Ninjato for example),


Except that Z-Man also produced Ninjato!


That is odd isn't it? The only other Z-Man game that I ever had with component problems was Genji. Card stock was terrible, and the counters almost all ripped when punched. Other than that, Z-Man has always had the highest quality.


I'm pretty sure Z-Man did all the manufacturing dealing themselves with Ninjato (an American game that started with them as publisher), while Ora et Labora is an import for them, so the manufacturing probably mostly fell on Lookout Games.

You have to be more careful about who you're blaming when it comes to companies like Z-Man, RGG and Asmodee who import games from other publishers.
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