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No Retreat! The Russian Front» Forums » Rules

Subject: Retreating, friendly units negating EZOCS and movement rss

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Willem Boersma
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Can a unit, when forced to retreat, keep on moving beyond the first hex retreated into if this hex contains a friendly unit? (obviously assuming that the second hex is outside an ezoc or yet another freindly unit is located there. This situation came up a number of times in the 1945 scenario as the Germans try to retreat their units from East Prussia along the Baltic coast).

I know that friendly units negate ezocs for the purpose of supply and retreating, but in another rule it says that movement must still stop. However, the way I see it, retreating is a special kind of movement and does therefotre not fall under the normal movement rules.
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Alex
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you see it exactly the way it is!

Alex
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Exactly: Retreat doesn't follow movement rules, but 10.7.5 rules.
1. Retreat 2 hexes (not one, not in zig-zag)
2. No TEC-MP cost involved in those 2 hexes. Only impassable hexes/hexsides are taken into acount (not across lake Peipus, for example). Remember as well that impassable hexsides prevent EZOCs too.
3. Not into EZOC or be destroyed/eliminated.
4. Friendly units negate EZOCs.

If at the end of 2nd hex the retreating unit doesn't contravenes stacking rules (before/after Turn 23) , it's ok.
If at the end of 2nd hex the retreating unit contravenes stacking rules - together with another Soviet army before Turn 23, together with 2 Soviet armies during/after Turn 23 - then ONE Army has to go to Shattered/Destroyed Units box (depends on OOS status, see 8.4.3) , Soviet choice, so that the destination hex will be in compliance of stacking rules.

Well, that's my take.
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Carl Paradis
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inefable urlik wrote:
Exactly: Retreat doesn't follow movement rules, but 10.7.5 rules.
1. Retreat 2 hexes (not one, not in zig-zag)
2. No TEC-MP cost involved in those 2 hexes. Only impassable hexes/hexsides are taken into acount (not across lake Peipus, for example). Remember as well that impassable hexsides prevent EZOCs too.
3. Not into EZOC or be destroyed/eliminated.
4. Friendly units negate EZOCs.

If at the end of 2nd hex the retreating unit doesn't contravenes stacking rules (before/after Turn 23) , it's ok.
If at the end of 2nd hex the retreating unit contravenes stacking rules - together with another Soviet army before Turn 23, together with 2 Soviet armies during/after Turn 23 - then ONE Army has to go to Shattered/Destroyed Units box (depends on OOS status, see 8.4.3) , Soviet choice, so that the destination hex will be in compliance of stacking rules.

Well, that's my take.


Yes, this is correct.
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Willem Boersma
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OK, just to rule out any uncertainty whatsoever: when using NORMAL movement a unit can still only move one hex even when moving into a hex with a friendly unit that is in an EZOC and not beyond regardless of the status of any of those hexes ("empty", string of friendly units etc.)

I guess this represents the fact that even though movement is possible it will be hampered by the close proximity of enemy units (strafing, artillery fire, incursions, infiltrations etc.)
 
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Willem Boersma
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inefable urlik wrote:
Exactly: Retreat doesn't follow movement rules, but 10.7.5 rules.
1. Retreat 2 hexes (not one, not in zig-zag)
2. No TEC-MP cost involved in those 2 hexes. Only impassable hexes/hexsides are taken into acount (not across lake Peipus, for example). Remember as well that impassable hexsides prevent EZOCs too.
3. Not into EZOC or be destroyed/eliminated.
4. Friendly units negate EZOCs.

If at the end of 2nd hex the retreating unit doesn't contravenes stacking rules (before/after Turn 23) , it's ok.
If at the end of 2nd hex the retreating unit contravenes stacking rules - together with another Soviet army before Turn 23, together with 2 Soviet armies during/after Turn 23 - then ONE Army has to go to Shattered/Destroyed Units box (depends on OOS status, see 8.4.3) , Soviet choice, so that the destination hex will be in compliance of stacking rules.

Well, that's my take.


Or a hex with a stack 3 German units...(right?)
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Carl Paradis
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boersma8 wrote:
Or a hex with a stack 3 German units...(right?)


You mean moving one Axis unit on a hex already containing 2 Axis units, right? Then yes.
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Jan van der Laan
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Als u begrijpt wat ik bedoel.
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Reacting in 4 minutes? You are so incredibly fast! thumbsup
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Alex
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Jan van der Laan wrote:
Reacting in 4 minutes? You are so incredibly fast! thumbsup


4 Minutes?

Carl is starting to take longer...

Well, probably only cause he is at work!

'I don't know why anyone ever reads up anything in the rules... It is so much easier and sometimes faster here on bgg!
 
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Jan van der Laan
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You're fast too!

Edit: typo.
 
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Willem Boersma
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licinius wrote:
boersma8 wrote:
Or a hex with a stack 3 German units...(right?)


You mean moving one Axis unit on a hex already containing 2 Axis units, right? Then yes.


That is indeed what I meant.Good catch to correct me by saying "Axis" instead of "German".
 
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Willem Boersma
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boersma8 wrote:
OK, just to rule out any uncertainty whatsoever: when using NORMAL movement a unit can still only move one hex even when moving into a hex with a friendly unit that is in an EZOC and not beyond regardless of the status of any of those hexes ("empty", string of friendly units etc.)

I guess this represents the fact that even though movement is possible it will be hampered by the close proximity of enemy units (strafing, artillery fire, incursions, infiltrations etc.)


Oh, and Carl, there's a somewhat hidden question in this bit as well...
 
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Steven
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From what I can tell, you are correct:

[8.5.3] No Infiltration: Units cannot move directly from one hex in an EZOC to another, unless the hex being entered is also occupied by a friendly unit (where it must still stop as per 8.5.1). Otherwise, a unit must first leave an EZOC by way of a hex that isn’t in an EZOC and then continue moving.

Basically, from what I can tell EZOC still stop a friendly movement even if a friendly unit is present, however you can move from an EZOC to another EZOC if a friendly unit is present (shifting units along a front to make a concentrated offensive).

EDIT: It looks like 8.5.1 always affects your units, you have to stop in EZOC during movement. Although you get limited infiltration to shift units around, retreating or supply.
 
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Carl Paradis
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boersma8 wrote:
boersma8 wrote:
OK, just to rule out any uncertainty whatsoever: when using NORMAL movement a unit can still only move one hex even when moving into a hex with a friendly unit that is in an EZOC and not beyond regardless of the status of any of those hexes ("empty", string of friendly units etc.)

I guess this represents the fact that even though movement is possible it will be hampered by the close proximity of enemy units (strafing, artillery fire, incursions, infiltrations etc.)


Oh, and Carl, there's a somewhat hidden question in this bit as well...


OK...

When the card says 1MP it means ONEMovement Point, NOT one Hex: or I would have stated "one hex, Normal Movement".

If I would have stated just "1 Hex", since the card text trumps any rules, you could have moved one hex anywhere, regardless of the movement rules (ex: enemy ZOCs).
 
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Willem Boersma
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licinius wrote:
boersma8 wrote:
boersma8 wrote:
OK, just to rule out any uncertainty whatsoever: when using NORMAL movement a unit can still only move one hex even when moving into a hex with a friendly unit that is in an EZOC and not beyond regardless of the status of any of those hexes ("empty", string of friendly units etc.)

I guess this represents the fact that even though movement is possible it will be hampered by the close proximity of enemy units (strafing, artillery fire, incursions, infiltrations etc.)


Oh, and Carl, there's a somewhat hidden question in this bit as well...


OK...

When the card says 1MP it means ONEMovement Point, NOT one Hex: or I would have stated "one hex, Normal Movement".

If I would have stated just "1 Hex", since the card text trumps any rules, you could have moved one hex anywhere, regardless of the movement rules (ex: enemy ZOCs).


No, I'm not referring to cards. I simply mean that say you have a string on German units along the Baltic coast and Soviet units facing all of them, could ypu move a German unit with sufficient MPs more than 1 hex? I'd say no, because movement still stops when you enter a hex in an EZOC even though for SUPPLY and RETREAT purposes such a friendly unit would negate the EZOC (but NOT for regular movement...)
 
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Carl Paradis
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No you cannot.

[8.5.3] No Infiltration: Units cannot move directly from
one hex in an EZOC to another, unless the hex being entered
is also occupied by a friendly unit (where it must still stop
as per 8.5.1). Otherwise, a unit must first leave an EZOC
by way of a hex that isn’t in an EZOC and then continue
moving.
 
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Willem Boersma
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licinius wrote:
No you cannot.

[8.5.3] No Infiltration: Units cannot move directly from
one hex in an EZOC to another, unless the hex being entered
is also occupied by a friendly unit (where it must still stop
as per 8.5.1). Otherwise, a unit must first leave an EZOC
by way of a hex that isn’t in an EZOC and then continue
moving.


So it must still stop. I was already 90% sure (because of this rule), but it's always good to be 100% sure (-:

Thanks you very much for your swift replies and the wonderful game you've designed. It's become my favorite WW2 Eastern front strategic game within no time!
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