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Subject: Wrong Family Crests for Hashiba Hideyoshi.... rss

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Jason Tseng
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I don't know if anyone had figured this question out.

In ancient Japan, each family (Daimyo) has their specific Family Crests, also called "Kamon".

The Kamon of Hashiba Hideyoshi in this game is wrong:


The Kamon was owned by Oda Nobunaga (1534-1582), and Oda Nobunaga is the more reasonable Daimyo to fight with Takeda, Mori and Uesugi.

Hashiba Hideyoshi just became Daimyo after the death of Oda Nobunaga, and Hashiba also has specific Kamon, showed as below:


I don't know which Daimyo that designer want to design in this game.
In my opinion, Oda Nobunaga is more suitable in this game, because Hashiba Hideyoshi was activating in late-war period, the war was almost finished.

I love this game and theme, but this mistake made me hesitate to get a copy....will Queen Games release 2nd edition to fix this problem??
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Chris Berger
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fr014371 wrote:
I love this game and theme, but this mistake made me hesitate to get a copy....will Queen Games release 2nd edition to fix this problem??


This is not in any way a historical simulation game. The leaders and crests are a nice bit of flavor, but nothing more. They might "fix" your issue the next time they reprint, but it's about as minor as issues get.
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Kevin Duke
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Problem is in the eye of the beholder.
 
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While it's not the kind of oversight that's going to completely ruin a game for me, if they're going to take the time to make a game about a certain place in a certain period of time with enough detail that certain daimyo and family crests are included, it would be nice if they did enough research on the time and place to get what the details they include in the game historically accurate. Anything else is insulting and/or amateurish.

Remember, nobody made them choose this particular theme and setting. It's akin to someone from another country making a game that included mention of the POTUS and referring to him as Osama. At best it comes across as quaint naïveté. At worst it's the kind of oversight that causes misunderstanding, as well as the subsequent hard feelings and rash overreaction.

Obviously those with common sense understand that this is just a board game and far from something worth getting upset over, but when dealing with a culture that is rife with opportunities to dishonor and has historically been quite sensitive, the little bit of effort to get things right the first time would be worth it.
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kduke wrote:
Problem is in the eye of the beholder.


In this instance, a little consideration for another country's history would be a virtue.

Nobody should be held to another's standards of behavior, but we're talking about a consumer product here. If you're going to make a game about a specific country and that country's history, do you really want to automatically alienate and piss off potential customers for something so easily fixed?

It just makes more sense to spend 5 minutes to get it right at the stage the theme was added.
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Jason Tseng
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Thank you, Gomez
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You just helped me to explain my feeling exactly!thumbsup
 
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Billy McBoatface
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I think there is pretty close to zero chance of this getting fixed in a later reprint. If you want to fix it, I'd recommend you make some pasteups. If you have a good printer, a scanner, and some knowledge of photoshop, you should be able to fix your copy in an afternoon.
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Pedro Pereira
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hskrfn822 wrote:
kduke wrote:
Problem is in the eye of the beholder.


In this instance, a little consideration for another country's history would be a virtue.

Nobody should be held to another's standards of behavior, but we're talking about a consumer product here. If you're going to make a game about a specific country and that country's history, do you really want to automatically alienate and piss off potential customers for something so easily fixed?

It just makes more sense to spend 5 minutes to get it right at the stage the theme was added.


Although I agree with you, It is also known for mistakes to happen. And I'm quite sure the intend was not to piss off potential customers. Although the sentiment may be particular acute on those that know about this, I didn't. But now that I do, I'm certainly not going to dismiss the game, nor would I get rid of this and buy a re-print just because they fixed this, but I will tell people that there is a mistake in this game.

Mistakes happen, sometimes to the best, and Shogun just is one of the best...
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Agreed. It's still a great game, although I prefer Wallenstein's theme.

I'm not looking for the Shogun's designers to prostrate themselves before those that were offended and beg forgiveness. No figurative seppuku is necessary. I'm just saying that I could understand someone getting irked by the omission of Oda Nobunaga. I was hoping to avoid hyperbolic statements, but perhaps I crossed the line in my previous posts.
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John Mehrholz
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Just noticed this error myself. It's not going to keep me from playing the game, but it is a silly mistake from the point of view of anyone familiar with the period.

It would be kind of like doing a game on the Battle of El Alamein and deciding to use Patton instead of Montgomery.

That they gave Hideyoshi the Oda crest just compounds the error.
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Ralph T
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Write to Queen in German. Maybe they will consider it.
 
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Hugues Richard
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Never played cause the anachronism is so distasteful. gulp
Nobunaga was in control of Hashiba and the protector of Ieyasu until he committed sepuku, 10 years after Shingen died old/musket shot. And the images, generic samurais, you can't recognize anyone damn it! If you copy your own game and just past some other flavor on it, at least do a decent enough pasting job... that's all you had to do.
 
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Michael Fulks
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Anyone know if anyone ever did printouts for this? I just got the game to replace Ikusa (a horrifically inaccurate game)and was shocked that they had Hideyoshi as the "leader" of the Oda clan instead of Nobunaga.
 
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