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Subject: High Score rss

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Ian Powell
Australia
Glenrowan
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I played a 4p game last night with the farmers of the moor and seasons expansions. Using the Occupations from the interactive deck and minor improvements from the base game E deck and the farmers F deck.

I scored 54 which I thought was pretty good, however my son scored a massive 117!

He regularly scores 90+ in 2p games we play; I enjoy the game, even though I haven't got any chance of winning - I just focus on improving on my high score
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Ben Bateson
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Er....

I'm PRETTY sure you're not scoring correctly.

In any sort of multiplayer Agricola game, a score of 40+ is pretty good, and 50+ is exceptional. I saw someone score 61 once, but that was a real freak down to some excellent cards and poor play on the part of the other players (including me).
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Eddy Richards
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That is high! I beat my wife 61-40 the other day (2 palyer, no expansions, using a mix of the I and E deck minors and occupations) and that was very high for us. Usually our scores added up come to about 70 or 80.

I presume the expansions tend to increase scores somewhat, and then if everything goes right......
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Scott Wheelock
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Next time that happens, you've gotta tell us what the farm looked like. That's a crazy-high score!
 
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Benjamin Kerenza
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Yes wow,

I got FotM for my birthday so have only played one family game so far and although the scores do seem to be higher than the base game that does sound pretty impressive. That is worthy of a session report alright.
 
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Robert Zwiers
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I dare to say our group is pretty experienced in multi-player Gric games, although not so much 2p as 3 or 4p or even 5p. We normally play with FotM and sometimes the G-Deck and only once did someone score over 80 points (83).

I think everyone in our group has scored over or close to 70 points one time or another, but those scores are exceptional. Our winning scores are normally 50+ or 60+. What did your sons farm look like with 117 points, and more importantly, what cards did he have in play?

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asj
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Well from farm/family/etc max points is 59. That leaves 58 from cards and bonus points. That's a lot of bonus points....
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Geoff Burkman
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harlequin1 wrote:
...I scored 54 which I thought was pretty good, however my son scored a massive 117!

He regularly scores 90+ in 2p games we play...


Something is definitely wrong in how you're scoring playing. Definitely.

Edit: correction after follow-up testimony.
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David Larkin
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My nephew scores like that
 
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Ian Powell
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Here was the board and the cards he played.

Just to confirm we were playing with FotM and the Seasons expansions.
Occupations K (an E was accidently shuffled in)
Minor K base game
Minor E FotM


 
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Ian Powell
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In summary the pts breakdown was:
Fields 4
Pastures 4
Grain 4
Veg 4
Sheep 1
Boar 2
Cattle 3
Horses 8
Unused spaces 0
Fenced stable 4
Stone rooms 12
Family members 15
Pts for cards 26
Bonus pts 30

Total 117
 
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Scott Wheelock
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Whoa.

How did so many Major Improvements get played?
 
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Lacombe
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My wife and I have hit the 70s occasionally playing FotM 2p.

I'd be reeeeeally hesitant to accept frequent / regular scores that high or higher as being legitimately earned.

 
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Scott Wheelock
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NateStraight wrote:
My wife and I have hit the 70s occasionally playing FotM 2p.

I'd be reeeeeally hesitant to accept frequent / regular scores that high or higher as being legitimately earned.



Well, let's assume a very non-competitive game with no deliberate blocking. Is it possible to get down so many occupations & improvements?
 
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Derakon Derakon
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swheelock wrote:
Well, let's assume a very non-competitive game with no deliberate blocking. Is it possible to get down so many occupations & improvements?
I'm pretty sure you'd need to have at least two players in collusion (i.e. one player intentionally neglecting his own farm to make available good plays for the other player) for someone to breach 100 points.
 
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A Brave New Geek
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That sounds incredible - I scored 64 in a 2p game once (only the base game - all decks mixed together) though it was freakish.
 
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Lacombe
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swheelock wrote:
NateStraight wrote:
My wife and I have hit the 70s occasionally playing FotM 2p.

I'd be reeeeeally hesitant to accept frequent / regular scores that high or higher as being legitimately earned.



Well, let's assume a very non-competitive game with no deliberate blocking. Is it possible to get down so many occupations & improvements?


Frankly, I'm not sure. I'm not sure it's possible even with direct collusion. Non-competitive is one thing, but this score really is extraordinarily, freakishly, insanely high. Everyone at the table would have to be actively planning for a player to achieve it, and I doubt even then it's "physically" possible. The sheer resource cost seems too high. I have no idea how you'd ever get that much stuff and still have actions leftover to a) play it all, b) do everything else you did.
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Andrew Foerster
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Yeah, this seems like this was specifically set up to try to maximize the score. He avoids entirely every negative (in a 4p game). Gets ten majors, including pretty much every one worth having (no fireplaces, natch, but the super valuable cookhouse). Manages to play six pretty viable occs (what, a seventh would have been too obvious?). Gets eight horses. Full family, oversized stone house. Etc. etc.

Either you're wasting a lot of actions to get those majors out, or he's spending a lot of resources to take specials, and nobody's blocking those specials.

Regularly scoring in the 90s with 2p sounds pretty hokey to me, as well.
 
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Lacombe
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Something's obviously off; the only question is what it is.

Here's a report from one of the more active Agricola players on the site, of a highest non-solitaire score of 84:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/6468263#6468263
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Scott Wheelock
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NateStraight wrote:
Frankly, I'm not sure. I'm not sure it's possible even with direct collusion. Non-competitive is one thing, but this score really is extraordinarily, freakishly, insanely high. Everyone at the table would have to be actively planning for a player to achieve it, and I doubt even then it's "physically" possible. The sheer resource cost seems too high. I have no idea how you'd ever get that much stuff and still have actions leftover to a) play it all, b) do everything else you did.


Right. I was thinking action cost, but the cost of the resources alone would be pretty nuts.

So, Ian, the possibility is strong that there's something awry in the way you're playing. The amount of cards laid down in incredible, given that there's only so many rounds of play.
 
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Lacombe
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swheelock wrote:
So, Ian, the possibility is strong that there's something awry in the way you're playing.


Honestly, it's beyond "strong", verging on "certain".
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Tim Schmitt
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It seems improbable to me too.

Think of all the actions it would take to accomplish this:
15 improvements (major & minor)
6 occupations
4 fields (5 in the photo)
1+ veg
1+ grain
1+ sowing
4+ animals
4+ resources (wood, stone, etc.)
4 rooms
2 building upgrades
1+ fences

- not to mention the need to generate food for all of those family members.

Of course, some of the 43+ actions could be combined, and I didn't look closely at the occupations/improvements he played to see what benefits they might provide. But on the other hand, chances are that some of these actions would have to be taken more than once to accomplish what he did. Combine this with the need to sequence his actions perfectly, and the competition with you for resources and actions (your score was respectable too), and I'm just not sure I buy it. As one of the above comments states, I'm not sure it can be done even with other players (in this case, you) actively trying to help him accomplish it.

It makes me wonder - did he feed his family at the end of each round? Pay attention to begging rules? pay a food for each occupation after the first? Pay the costs of the improvements? Play only one improvement/one occupation when those actions were taken? Are you refreshing the available resources correctly?

Caveat to my comments: I've never played any expansions, so I can't comment on how those might affect the game.
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Lacombe
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Whangdoodle wrote:
I didn't look closely at the occupations/improvements he played to see what benefits they might provide.


Aside from Braggart and all the majors, none of them were particularly strong. None granted double or extra actions, which would have been key to this.

Quote:
Caveat to my comments: I've never played any expansions, so I can't comment on how those might affect the game.


FotM admittedly increases scores by somewhere around 10-20 points over the base game [because you get somewhere around 10-14 more actions].

Seasons mostly makes the game easier, and there are some very strong actions that can be taken using the seasons board, some which directly grant VPs.

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Andrew Foerster
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The other thing is that I think it's the businessman that allows Majors to be played as Minors. If this is a reasonably competitive group, it would almost be essential to get that out so that this player could control Starting Player (and get majors out) so that he can grab the specials or the seasonal action or nice resource accumulation, etc. Of course, controlling SP only grants you one of those highly sought after spots and you would expect that the others would get snatched up. I think there's also an occ that lets you play two majors or something. Of course, I don't think either of those are in play.
 
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Geoff Burkman
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NateStraight wrote:
Something's obviously off; the only question is what it is.

Here's a report from one of the more active Agricola players on the site, of a highest non-solitaire score of 84:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/6468263#6468263


Thanks for pointing that out, Nate. Here's the actual session report detailing the accomplishment, should anyone be interested: 84 Point win

I would dearly love to see a session report for the OP's game. Note that in my game, I played only one less Ock and two less Majors, and didn't have the Braggart, so I suppose the apocryphal score of 117 is possible somehow. That it happened in a 4-Player game, though, seems highly suspect, even with active collusion on the part of all three opponents. I'd still like to see how it was done, and still find the claim that the kid routinely scores miraculous scores in 2-Player games to strain the limits of credulity.

Edit: Curiosity drove me back to check this out again. Note that the card array has a total stone cost of 20Stone. Discounting three one as possibly paid with the Museum of the Moors (Stone Oven, Joinery, Pottery), that leaves 17 19 plus the six required for the stone hut, a total of 23 25Stone minimum out of a game maximum availability of 29 (assuming the two stone action spaces show up at the earliest possible time). The cards shown include none that offer any stone discounts except the aforementioned Museum, never mind using 10 out of 16 maximum available MIMI actions, plus whatever Clandestine Work opportunities were available). If there is anyone who believes that could have happened, particularly in a game where an opponent ostensibly scored 54, I have a bridge, some beachfront property in Miami, and some excellent stocks I'd like to sell them.

2d/3d Edits: I did overlook that this was a "Through the Seasons" game, which could have provided an additional 4Stone discount through adroit use of the Autumn purchase of Major Improvements. That still means 19 21 out of 29 maximum available stone in a 4-player game, and my sell offer still stands.

4th Edit: realization that the Museum only saves stone for the Stone Oven purchase.
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