Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
5 Posts

The Battle for Normandy» Forums » General

Subject: Battle for Normandy Issues rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Hubert Hoffmann
Austria
Vienna
flag msg tools
I really wanted to like this game but there are multiple issues to which I would like to hear a (Tactical) solution.

1. Aircraft:
In every single attack we used a +3 (Taking even in bad weather 40+ air points for combat support). This quickly destroys every opposition, because in open even a 1:1 with a +3 will more likely than not destroy or hurt the enemy. Boscage and cities are negated and only Anti Air can possibly prevent that (But that’s luck based also in the beginning the German side doesn’t have a lot of FLAK)
In our 2nd game we restricted that by only allowing a maximum +1 air support in combat and only allowing the amount of fighters as specified in the solitaire rules. (Which is a lot less then 40+). At first it worked all well until we hit boscage which was impenetrable. (Because attacking with a 2:1 with -2 is not a very likely to succeed and such attacks would cost 3 SPs use most of your corps artillery and the combined strength of and division)
So why does the game rely so much on aircraft?

2. The strange artillery system:
This is the first wargame I know of where artillery gives combat strength rather than combat modifiers. This makes for a strange combat system. Here is an example:
6 US units attack 2 German ones. The 6 US units have a combined strength of 30 plus artillery which are another 20 points. The German player takes a Nebelwerfer + 1 artillery (Combined 10 points) plus his units (10 Points). So you fight with 50 against 20 points and quickly you are at an 2:1. This only comes at the price of 3sps and a full non reduced division (So happens rather rarely especially as the game progresses). In boscage without air support you would attack at with an 2:1 with -3, so it is more likely than not a useless attack which will at best cost each side a step and force a retreat.

3. The strange replacement system:
Later in the game our German player would dissolve entire divisions and replenish his elite division. This made his losses almost useless (And he had enough troops and reinforcements to easily hold the line). So common soldiers would now be elite Lehr soldiers, common tanks Tiger battalions. Is there no way to restrict this? (It worked for the allies with an optional rule with the -1/-1)

4. Boscage (And boscage behind rivers)
Boscage was really bad for the allies, but in this game they are worse than cities because you are not allowed to follow (You can with tanks after the combat). This gets worse behind rivers were even the tanks don’t help. Also it is needed to use 3 fighters in every single combat to stand a chance (And to possibly get good results) it gets a little easier after the Rhino tanks arrive. But they feel too brutal. The biggest breakthroughs happen in the boscage areas.

We played the game extensively. We conquered Cherbourg in time, never had a storm (Extremely lucky there) and got the beaches working very early on (Lots of 5 and 6s). So this didn't influence the game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Stearns
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As a general answer to questions 1 and 3- if you are going ti abuse the rules because of a loop hole there is nothing to do about that except agree on house rules.

1. In addition to above, if you are assigning max air points to ground support missions you are not interdicting german movement or using armed recon to attck bridges and vulnerable units. Its a trade off you have to decide on. I think the solitaire air chart should be standard use.

2. Actually The Longest Day utiluzes artllery the same way and it does work. If you use all your available artillery on attack you wont have any left for counter-battrey or defensive fire. I have found defensive arty support to be very effective at lowering odds. There are not a lot of plus modifiers to combat, but there is enough to counter some of the negative modifiers. Using counter battery and armed recon to take out german arty is also an effective tactic.

3. I see what you are saying here. This is manipulating a rule to use something in an unintended way. Breaking down companies is to increase coverage not as a pseudo replacement system. I would habe never thought of that. This begs to have a breakdown chart like other games to keep track of which units have broken down. I would require broken down units be reformed before companies can be used to rebuild units on the map.

4. I agree bocage is bad news for the attacker. It is in every normandy game. Utilize ground support and combined arms to counter the negative modifiers. You get combined arms modifiers across bridged rivers also. The crt isnt bad even at 2-1. You will take your lumps but the allies will win the battle of attrition.

You all need to sit down and house rule these situations. Playing a game like this in such a way as finding loop holes and maximizing them instead of trying to understand the purpose of the rule and limitong play to that is going to lead to some of the aberations your seeing.

When all else fails ask the designer.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hubert Hoffmann
Austria
Vienna
flag msg tools
Thanks for the reply! I think we have no problem with house rules but balancing them is an issue (As stated the +1 max made it impossible to attack in boscage, also there is the German night fire thing which becomes a problem once the German has more than enough artillery and can spare some for bombarding)

Combined arms also is less useful in the late game (You might blast away the infantry division but seconds later there will be a reserve elite tank division there)

The main problem seems to lie in the late game (Mid July - August) where things just get out of hand. German lines become impenetrable in boscage (He can cover everything with Nebelwerfer and Artillery because they are not restricted to divisions) and if you invest like 100 supply points and blast away a division, the German player can just reinforce it with reserves. (And you run out of supply) Abusing Air support seems the only way to advance in the late game.

Well maybe we will get our heads together and work something out...
The basic system is really fun and engaging, it just seems to need a little more work to prevent abuse and balance things.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Danny Holte
United States
Fullerton
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb


I don't have much time at the moment, but you should not need house rules.

Regarding the breakdown of companies to replace losses in other divisions - yes, this can be done. In fact, it was to a certain extent historically, that is, seriously damaged divisions simply fed as repl into others.

First, battalions cannot simply be eliminated and turned in for replacement points. They can only be broken down to breakdown companies.

Once broken down, a division can only support three attached units. Breakdown companies are no longer division units; they are corps units and must be supplied via attachment. So, if a player is doing this en masse, he is almost certainly going to be dealing with a lot of out of supply units to move at a reduced rate.

Then, units have to be in supply to combine or build. So, only three breakdown companies could be incorporated by a division in a single turn. That is, three reduced battalions flipped by adding a breakdown company, or one battalion built adjacent to the HQ in a turn's movement phase. Stacking limits of course come into play as well.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hubert Hoffmann
Austria
Vienna
flag msg tools
The reply is very much appreciated!

The main issue is that this is mostly (just mostly) a late game problem. Thus the german player has a lot of free coprs hq (Plus division hq). So he can easily supply this. (In the early game he will just replace the most importent troops, since he is struggling for units)

Also yes the germany did do that, they replaced elite soldiers with common soldiers (Happend so with my great granduncle who was put into an ss division as a new recruit). But they didn't have the training and experience, thus were far less effective than elite troopers. (Panzer Lehr as an example consited of officers and units who trained panzer divisions, you can't replace that)

It seems to need limitations.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.