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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Group Movement Question rss

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Alastair Cornish
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Hi there I played my first couple of games a few nights ago and had a question:

Q1: When can units in a hex move together (group move)?
Is it:
A) When a move order is played and a unit in a hex is activated and that hex also has other units in it.

OR

B) Only as a result of ordering a leader and triggering units in his command radius.

OR

C) Something else.

If the answer is B then I have another question:
Q2: Why would you even move multiple units together (group move) which then limits them all to moving at the speed of the slowest instead of ordering all those units singly (albeit with a single card but activating them and moving them one by one) meaning each unit will move to its fullest and not be slowed by any other units (if that made sense!)

Thanks

 
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Mark Buetow
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tigermuppetcut wrote:
Hi there I played my first couple of games a few nights ago and had a question:

Q1: When can units in a hex move together (group move)?
Is it:
A) When a move order is played and a unit in a hex is activated and that hex also has other units in it.

OR

B) Only as a result of ordering a leader and triggering units in his command radius.

OR

C) Something else.


C, sort of. First off, all units must be activated to Move, which, as you noted will take a leader to do so.

Then, units may or may not Move together. Your choice. However, units that begin moving together must stop moving together which, as you indicated means they will move bases on slowest Move stat. But also note that if one unit is hit and broken during Op Fire, that will likely end its movement and thus the movement for the whole stack.

Quote:

If the answer is B then I have another question:
Q2: Why would you even move multiple units together (group move) which then limits them all to moving at the speed of the slowest instead of ordering all those units singly (albeit with a single card but activating them and moving them one by one) meaning each unit will move to its fullest and not be slowed by any other units (if that made sense!)

Thanks



Well, you'd move them if you wanted to keep them together, first of all. If units get srtung out, they're less likely to be in a leader's command radius and so end up as stragglers.

Also, let's say you are moving two units three hexes. If you move them together and your opponent Op Fires, that will mean three shots (assuming they survive in each hex). If you moved them separately, it would mean six shots. That burns up twice as many cards. Perhaps as the Attacker you want to slow the card cycling a bit so you don't want that many shots being taken.

One of the important decisions you'll make when you set up your forces is how to arrange them so that the guys whose MPs are less won't slow everyone down terribly but can still stick with the groups and do something.

Another reason might be that you want all your units togethe so they can Assault Fire. If you move them one at a time, you might not be in a position to take a shot with them as a Fire Group.

Generally speaking, you are indeed limited by the slowest units but unless there are compelling circumstances, if you are going to move them, you'll use a leader to do so and try to keep them together. And if you're moving a bunch, you should have a Recover Card in your hand before doing so!

Just some thoughts.
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Steve Bishop
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Lytham St. Annes
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Hi Al,

well the first thing you do is decide WHO to activate with the Move Order, this can be a single unit OR if you activate a leader he can also activate all units within his command radius.

You can then choose to move activated units that are stacked together individualy if you wish OR move them together as a stack. As you say if you move them together they will have a Movement Allowance equal to the lowest in the stack.

The advantages of moving as a stack is that the whole stack can benefit from the leaders bonus both for movement and any subsequent defence rolls but, also as important, the stack draws a single Op-Fire opportunity from your opponent in each hex it moves to.
If you move the units individually then your opponent can Op-Fire on EACH unit as it moves in every hex that it moves to.

If you are on the attack you don't generally want your opponent to be burning cards resolving Fire attacks and potentially causing time triggers, so the fewer Fire opportunities you can give him the better.




edit - damn late by one minute
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Cindy Nowak
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bishuk wrote:

The advantages of moving as a stack is that the whole stack can benefit from the leaders bonus...for movement


A very good reason - they are not quite so slow then.
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Alastair Cornish
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Ok I think I understand now.

Though I need to read up on op fire more. I'm not sure I ever really understood the correlation of MPs spent and hexes moved vs number of shots that could come their way in op fire.
 
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Mark Buetow
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tigermuppetcut wrote:
Ok I think I understand now.

Though I need to read up on op fire more. I'm not sure I ever really understood the correlation of MPs spent and hexes moved vs number of shots that could come their way in op fire.


You activate one or more units to Move. As soon as one (or more) has moved one hex, your opponent may play a Fire Action, activating one or more units to fire. For each hex you move into during that Move Order, your opponent can take ONE shot with one (or more, as a group) units that were activated for that Fire Action.

If a unit breaks while being Op Fired, it is likely not going to move any further as most broken units only have 1 MP and they have already spent that 1 MP (or more) moving to the next in which they were shot.

If the units survive the Op Fire, they can continue to expend Movement Points.

In Combat Commander, Op Fire shots are ONLY taken when enemy units move into a hex. They are NOT taken at the expenditure of movement points. This means

(1) A unit transferring a weapon can't be Op Fired and
(2) A unit spending more than 1 MP to move into woods or building, or other terrain can't be shot at for each MP spent, but just once.

Make sense?
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Alastair Cornish
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Perfect sense!

Thank you and everyone else who helped in this thread. I really, really enjoyed CC:E

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Confusion Under Fire
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Another good reason to move a leader with stacked units is to keep the leader together with his units. A defender may allow your units to move as far as they want, also giving you the impression he does not hold a fire card and then attack the leader as soon as he moves. If he is successful you may find units close to the enemy with no leader in range.
 
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Alastair Cornish
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Hmmm maybe I'm playing something else wrong then...Why would you wait and attack a leader alone as you suggest? When you attack you shoot everyone in the hex right? So the leader is no more or less vulnerable on his own (unless I've messed up as I say).
 
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Mark Buetow
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tigermuppetcut wrote:
Hmmm maybe I'm playing something else wrong then...Why would you wait and attack a leader alone as you suggest? When you attack you shoot everyone in the hex right? So the leader is no more or less vulnerable on his own (unless I've messed up as I say).


He just means that if you had a leader and two units and you moved the two units by themselves, your opponent might wait to shoot the leader only and thus rob the other units of his command radius. The leader isn't more vulnerable per se but taking out a leader is always good. If you shot at them all together, they'd likely Recover all together.

There's lots of different reasons for doing or not doing something which are determined by the situation at the moment something happens. There's not a single right answer for every circumstance.
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Guy Riessen
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Malacandra wrote:


Also, let's say you are moving two units three hexes. If you move them together and your opponent Op Fires, that will mean three shots (assuming they survive in each hex). If you moved them separately, it would mean six shots. That burns up twice as many cards. Perhaps as the Attacker you want to slow the card cycling a bit so you don't want that many shots being taken.


Just want to clarify the "twice as many cards" part--it burns twice as many cards due to the "die rolls" not because it takes more Fire Action cards--just one Fire Action will keep the Op Fire going for the entire Move Order. AND, it will likely use up more than twice as many cards since in 6 shots, there's undoubtedly going to be one or more events, each requiring a card to determine the event, and possibly an additonal card to determine a hex. As a defender you LOVE each unit to move separately for that card burn!
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Alex H.
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Sprydle wrote:
Malacandra wrote:


Also, let's say you are moving two units three hexes. If you move them together and your opponent Op Fires, that will mean three shots (assuming they survive in each hex). If you moved them separately, it would mean six shots. That burns up twice as many cards. Perhaps as the Attacker you want to slow the card cycling a bit so you don't want that many shots being taken.


Just want to clarify the "twice as many cards" part--it burns twice as many cards due to the "die rolls" not because it takes more Fire Action cards--just one Fire Action will keep the Op Fire going for the entire Move Order. AND, it will likely use up more than twice as many cards since in 6 shots, there's undoubtedly going to be one or more events, each requiring a card to determine the event, and possibly an additonal card to determine a hex. As a defender you LOVE each unit to move separately for that card burn!


Excellent clarification.
 
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