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Subject: 3.0 Rules as written vs. Alan Emerich's 3.1 "living rules" rss

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Brad Miller
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So a bit of browsing of the rules forums here will quickly confuse one. There appears to be one primary change between these two rule sets that can have a drastic implication on how the game plays. The difference lies in this question:

When is a control flag placed on a captured city?

In the 3.0 rules that came in the box, we have:

"A player captures a box by having at least one piece there at the end of either player's part of the game turn (not just the end of a march)."

The "living rules", (not sure how alive actually, but I digress), have this in section 8.0:

"Procedure and Timing: A player ‘captures’ (‘owns’ and /or ‘controls’) a box by having at least one unit there at the end of his friendly Combat Segment.
Just ‘passing through’ or residing in a box at the end of a particular March during your Movement Segment does not change control of that box to ‘friendly.’ Control of boxes only changes at the end of a player’s Combat Segment."

This is a huge difference.

If the latter, I as the CSA can raid into Union territory, get a flag in a Confederate recruiting city, and then instantly recruit there in the recruiting segment.

If using the 3.0 rules as written, I have to wait a turn before I can recruit in that city.

So, what are your thoughts on this. I should probably go back through version's 1 and 2's rules to see how they handled this. Does the instant recruit issue seem a bit problematic?

 
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Moshe Callen
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I'm of the view "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and think the rules as written work well.
 
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Alan Emrich
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You're supposed to be able to recruit at that city on the turn you capture/recapture it.

Alan Emrich
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Jan Tuijp
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Windopaene wrote:
Just ‘passing through’ or residing in a box at the end of a particular March during your Movement Segment does not change control of that box to ‘friendly.’ Control of boxes only changes at the end of a player’s Combat Segment."


I always interpreted this as a "not blitzing" rule: you can't capture a city with one march and then use another march to capture yet another city with the same unit.

 
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Brad Miller
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Jan Tuijp wrote:

Windopaene wrote:
Just ‘passing through’ or residing in a box at the end of a particular March during your Movement Segment does not change control of that box to ‘friendly.’ Control of boxes only changes at the end of a player’s Combat Segment."


I always interpreted this as a "not blitzing" rule: you can't capture a city with one march and then use another march to capture yet another city with the same unit.



Well, there certainly are many wargames where simply moving through an objective hex will "capture" it for your side, without your leaving a garrison there. So that's what I always understood this to be about. To gain control, you need a CU there at the end of your turn, (from a CDG perspective).

 
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Brad Miller
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Alan Emrich wrote:
You're supposed to be able to recruit at that city on the turn you capture/recapture it.

Alan Emrich


Your having it there in your living rules would suggest that would be your response Alan. laugh

But, you must agree the Phalanx/Mayfair/whomever else got in on it/ 3.0 rules are pretty specific no? And I think one of the documents you host on your site talks about it, and again, looks like then it was at the end of your turn, not combat segment, in 2nd edition. Maybe that was a post on CSW, not sure where I saw that, or even if I did.

And would you not also agree this drmatically makes CSA cavalry raids a much bigger potential threat? Like, huge.

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Brad Miller
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Alan Emrich wrote:
You're supposed to be able to recruit at that city on the turn you capture/recapture it.

Alan Emrich


Well, you've said quite the opposite in several posts on Consimworld:

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@294.h2o2cssI6DS.462@.ee6...

slight change in your opinion here though you were combining two questions sort of:
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@294.h2o2cssI6DS.476@.ee6...

But most clearly here:
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@294.u4LZc3Y16cD.6@.ee6d0...

But, I think I may be able to see why you might not see this as a big issue.

If you were playing with all the rules, specifically the supply rules, then jumping behind enemy lines and capturing a recruiting city, and then immediately recruiting there, won't accomplish much, as those units would likely be out of supply, and then have to disband one of them, If you aren't using the supply rules, then it's a huge change.
 
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Jan Tuijp
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Windopaene wrote:
Alan Emrich wrote:
You're supposed to be able to recruit at that city on the turn you capture/recapture it.

Alan Emrich


Well, you've said quite the opposite in several posts on Consimworld:

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@294.h2o2cssI6DS.462@.ee6...

slight change in your opinion here though you were combining two questions sort of:
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@294.h2o2cssI6DS.476@.ee6...

But most clearly here:
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@294.u4LZc3Y16cD.6@.ee6d0...


Hm. I don't see it. Could you be more specific (quote)?
 
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Brad Miller
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Alan's responses in bold

Third link:
" If an unit moves in a non-controlled box, can another units during the same movement phase cross this box by railroad ?

No; it does not formally change ownership until the END of your turn (I.e., AFTER movement).

Rule 9.0 says about capturing cities that a player captures a box at the end of his turn but I don't know if it is applicable to every box and for movement...

It is.

Alan Emrich"

1sr link:

" 2. to gain control of a box does an inf unit have to remain in that box for the whole turn?

No, it just has to be there at the end of either player's turn."


 
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Matt
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The Confederates having the ability to insta-recruit militia in a newly captured city seems to complicate things somewhat for the Union. Anybody have issues with this, from a playability or historical perspective?
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Brad Miller
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I will stand by my earlier comments. If you playing with the supply rules, this will be less onerous, as a lone cab lurching about in the rear won't be able to establish supply, and the newly recruited unit will die.

Without them, it's a huge deal. Thematically, I could see the capture of a recruiting city, even by a cav brigade, might inspire local supporters to immediately volunteer. Can't speak to historicity.
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