Recommend
8 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game – Khazad-dûm» Forums » Rules

Subject: Lightless Passage rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Stan Hilinski
United States
Laurel
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
There is a shadow effect on this card that puzzles me. Lightless Passage: "Cancel all combat damage dealt to attacking enemy."

Up to now, when I've pulled a Shadow card or any other encounter card, I've resolved the effect immediately. Here, that does not seem possible unless I don't understand how it works. At the instant I "resolve" the effect, there is no discernible combat damage on the enemy. Oh, there might be old damage from before, but one cannot distinguish between combat damage and any other damage, so that can't be right. I'm guessing the effect means to say: "Cancel all combat damage this enemy might receive in the upcoming attack step of this phase."

It seems odd that the effect targets future damage in the way it's worded. I guess maybe that's why shadow cards aren't discarded until the end of the phase. Usually I just discard them right away, but I kept this one around in our game last night to remember its effect. The effect seems to say, by the way, that attacking this enemy is pointless, so why didn't it say "this enemy cannot be attacked" instead?

This brings me to a second card's Shadow effect. Patrol Leader. "Cancel all damage dealt to this enemy." This is where I get really puzzled because the wording is very similar to the other one. Does this mean to only remove damage that is already on the enemy? Cancel all upcoming damage to be dealt to this enemy this turn (and leave the old damage alone)? Or what?

An unrelated aside: The one encounter card in this set that I hate and fear the most (the "game over, you lose" card):

Sudden Pitfall. When revealed: The first player must discard 1 questing character he controls if able. This effect cannot be canceled. Shadow: Discard the defending character from play.

This one is so bad that I watch for it in the discard pile so I can start breathing normally again.



3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bart Rachemoss
United States
Silver City
New Mexico
flag msg tools
Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It is very strange. I think you interpreted the shadow effects correctly. IMO the difference between "combat damage" and "all damage" is direct damage. For example, when Gandalf enters play he can deal 4 damage to an enemy. Gondorian Spearman can deal 1 damage to an enemy when he is declared as a defender. My guess is this is not combat damage either.

So no damage tokens get removed by either shadow effect. One of them prevents all damage, the other prevents damage due to being actually attacked. It would be nice to get a clarification from FFG.

These encounters sound absolutely brutal! I imagine Glaurung2 will be thrilled. The USPS says my box of KD badness is arriving today.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
lizard
Netherlands
Utrecht
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Your interpretation of the Lightless Passage seems to be correct, as step 4 of Resolving Enemy Attacks is called Determine Combat Damage. So that one must be 0 when this shadow effect is active. But you could, for example, still sneak attack Gandalf to deal this enemy four damage and get rid of it. I don't think the Patrol Leader says that you should remove any damage tokens on the enemy, my guess is that it says that all damage dealt to this enemy is canceled while this shadow card is active. So, no combat damage and no tricks with Gandalf and similar ones. So it seems to be a little bit stronger...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derek Coon
United States
Redwood City
California
flag msg tools
It is a weird shadow effect for sure since it appears to apply the the enemy's defense instead of attack, which is after the shadow card should be discarded. I just left it "attached" to the enemy until after my attacking phase. (Basically to remind me not to bother attacking!)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Duke Of Lizards
United States
Montpelier
Vermont
flag msg tools
Livin's mostly wasting time, and I waste my share of mine
badge
I am a breathing time machine
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bullroarer Took wrote:
It is a weird shadow effect for sure since it appears to apply the the enemy's defense instead of attack, which is after the shadow card should be discarded. I just left it "attached" to the enemy until after my attacking phase. (Basically to remind me not to bother attacking!)


Actually, the rules state not to discard the shadow effects until the end of the combat phase. I've always wondered why, and now I'm guessing we'll see more delayed effects like this in the future.

Quote:
Shadow cards remain on the enemy to which they were dealt throughout the combat phase. If that enemy leaves play, discard its shadow card from play. At the end of the combat phase, discard all shadow cards that were dealt this round.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
lizard
Netherlands
Utrecht
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
polychrotid wrote:
Bullroarer Took wrote:
It is a weird shadow effect for sure since it appears to apply the the enemy's defense instead of attack, which is after the shadow card should be discarded. I just left it "attached" to the enemy until after my attacking phase. (Basically to remind me not to bother attacking!)


Actually, the rules state not to discard the shadow effects until the end of the combat phase. I've always wondered why, and now I'm guessing we'll see more delayed effects like this in the future.

Quote:
Shadow cards remain on the enemy to which they were dealt throughout the combat phase. If that enemy leaves play, discard its shadow card from play. At the end of the combat phase, discard all shadow cards that were dealt this round.


Same here! We'll have to watch out in the future.

ninja
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stan Hilinski
United States
Laurel
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The thing is the effect does not explicitly say to delay it until later in the phase, so I think there may be implication here that shadow effects remain active while they are face up and until removed.

The effect is actually not that terrible because when one sees its, then the player knows not to bother with an attack. There is another card out there, however, that is worse. I don't have the cards in front of me, but there is an enemy that after you attack it, you draw an encounter card, and if the card is another enemy, then your attack just vaporizes. I believe the enemy is 3 defense and 4 hits, so I find I had to really power up to kill it. My heart was in my throat every time I drew that post-attack encounter card!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason
United States
Champaign
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
shilinski wrote:
The thing is the effect does not explicitly say to delay it until later in the phase, so I think there may be implication here that shadow effects remain active while they are face up and until removed.


It's not an implication; it's stated in the rules. The shadow effect doesn't need to say anything about timing because it is, by default, effective until the end of the phase as long as the associated enemy is in play.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stan Hilinski
United States
Laurel
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
It's not an implication; it's stated in the rules.

I don't think it is stated in the rules; at least I could not find it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
lizard
Netherlands
Utrecht
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shilinski wrote:
Quote:
It's not an implication; it's stated in the rules.

I don't think it is stated in the rules; at least I could not find it.


page 20 wrote:
At the end of the combat phase, discard all shadow cards that were dealt this round.


So shadow cards stay until the end of the combat phase. It seems logical to me that a shadow card's effect can be such that it's effect applies until it is discarded, like the ones the OP has been describing.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oleg volobujev
msg tools
mbmb
Yes yes. I happy now!!!! Look like game start to be much more interesting!!! Now you are really will feel dangerous of the quests and players will think much more careful. Gooooood!!!!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oleg volobujev
msg tools
mbmb
radicalizard wrote:
Your interpretation of the Lightless Passage seems to be correct, as step 4 of Resolving Enemy Attacks is called Determine Combat Damage. So that one must be 0 when this shadow effect is active. But you could, for example, still sneak attack Gandalf to deal this enemy four damage and get rid of it. I don't think the Patrol Leader says that you should remove any damage tokens on the enemy, my guess is that it says that all damage dealt to this enemy is canceled while this shadow card is active. So, no combat damage and no tricks with Gandalf and similar ones. So it seems to be a little bit stronger...


Very true....
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.