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Subject: what is the best reaction as a US player after USSR takes Iran successfully in first round? rss

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Kyeong-ho Wang
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Hi everyone. This is my first post on geek. As I'm from south Korea, please forgive my poor english grammar.

What I want to ask is that 'what is the best reaction as a US player after USSR takes Iran successfully in first round?'

It depends on situations, of course, I understand that. But I think that there may be some good ways to react against this harsh circumstances.

In my opinion, just couping right back in Iran is a good idea, but what if USSR's influence is so solid and I have no 4 ops (or maybe 3 ops sometimes) cards?

I usually want to be a US player, as I like underdogs. But after USSR player takes Iran successfully, I have hard time playing early war. Please give me some wise advice. Thank you.
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Riku Riekkinen
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Take Egypt with 2IP & put one into Panama.
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Michael Marvosh
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sampal wrote:
Hi everyone. This is my first post on geek. As I'm from south Korea, please forgive my poor english grammar.

What I want to ask is that 'what is the best reaction as a US player after USSR takes Iran successfully in first round?'

It depends on situations, of course, I understand that. But I think that there may be some good ways to react against this harsh circumstances.

In my opinion, just couping right back in Iran is a good idea, but what if USSR's influence is so solid and I have no 4 ops (or maybe 3 ops sometimes) cards?

I usually want to be a US player, as I like underdogs. But after USSR player takes Iran successfully, I have hard time playing early war. Please give me some wise advice. Thank you.


I don't know the answer to your question, but don't worry about your grammar, because it's better than most native speakers' grammar.

-edit- See? I even have to edit my post to get it right.
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Kyeong-ho Wang
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Thank you for your quick reply, Riku. I understand what you mean. Take egypt with 2 ips and I don't need to be afraid of being eliminated from egypt because of nasser. And I can go to Libya also. Great strategy.

And may I ask another question? If a Soviet player coup in ME after that ,maybe in Egypt, then couping back is a good idea? Couping Iran or Egypt?

Well... one more thing. About putting an influence into Panama.... isnt it too early to go into Central America in first round? I mean, its very hard to survive in the early war as a US player.
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Kyeong-ho Wang
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thank you for your compliment
 
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Carlo Gozzi
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Riku Riekkinen wrote:
Take Egypt with 2IP & put one into Panama.


Hmmm and you want to leave Italy wide open for USSR? Thus probably losing control of Europe...

Panama is WAY too early...

I'd say secure Italy ASAP since no further coup will be possible after Iran gets cuop by USSR
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Jack Rudd
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Vorpalgens wrote:
Riku Riekkinen wrote:
Take Egypt with 2IP & put one into Panama.


Hmmm and you want to leave Italy wide open for USSR? Thus probably losing control of Europe...


Eh? Most standard USA opening setups involve putting at least 2 IP into Italy, so he'll already have control of it. And there's not going to be any chance of a Coup or Realignment there with the DefCon below 5.
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Sam Carroll
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Riku does things his own way (for example, a no-influence-in-West-Germany setup), but he's a very successful player. I wouldn't dismiss what he says too quickly.
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Riku Riekkinen
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sampal wrote:
Thank you for your quick reply, Riku. I understand what you mean. Take egypt with 2 ips and I don't need to be afraid of being eliminated from egypt because of nasser. And I can go to Libya also. Great strategy.

And may I ask another question? If a Soviet player coup in ME after that ,maybe in Egypt, then couping back is a good idea? Couping Iran or Egypt?

Well... one more thing. About putting an influence into Panama.... isnt it too early to go into Central America in first round? I mean, its very hard to survive in the early war as a US player.


Yes Exactly... if USSR plays Nasser, put 2 into Libya. Couping 2 stability countries is always bad business IP wise, since the die averages on 3,5 and 2*2 is 4 (stability doubled is greater).

Also couping Egypt will cancel Nasser bonus... playing Nasser means Egypt is 2/1... If USSR gets it to 3/1 Sadat will get it to 0/2.

Its not too early to play into 3rd world in early war. It scores almost as many times as the early regions. I hate to be left out of the Panama region.
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Riku Riekkinen
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spartax wrote:
Riku does things his own way (for example, a no-influence-in-West-Germany setup), but he's a very successful player. I wouldn't dismiss what he says too quickly.


Yes, I think leaving WG empty is so great I do it about half of the games, while everyone else seems to think its a bonehead move. Well maybe I'm a bonehead so treat my answers wisely
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Riku Riekkinen
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Couping back is a good choice, if USSR ends up with less than 3IPs (2 or less). Otherwise its probably just waste of OPs. Iran or Egypt.
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A risk of couping back is that USSR can take Thailand if it has Vietnam Revolts or Decolonization, since you'd reduce defcon to 3, making it safe to parachute into Asia.
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Dan Moore
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sampal wrote:
thank you for your compliment


You deserve it, jolly good use of the language.
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sampal wrote:
What I want to ask is that 'what is the best reaction as a US player after USSR takes Iran successfully in first round?



Sorry, couldn't help myself.
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Carlo Gozzi
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Riku Riekkinen wrote:
spartax wrote:
Riku does things his own way (for example, a no-influence-in-West-Germany setup), but he's a very successful player. I wouldn't dismiss what he says too quickly.


Yes, I think leaving WG empty is so great I do it about half of the games, while everyone else seems to think its a bonehead move. Well maybe I'm a bonehead so treat my answers wisely


Where do you put your starting pts if not in west germany?

Italy with at least 3?

How do you plan to take / takeback west germany?

Even with a pts in Panama you can get coup easily with 2...

But thx for your insgihts, very interesting! I love our community and the fact that we can exchanges our ideas.
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Gong Lu Cheng
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Riku Riekkinen wrote:
Take Egypt with 2IP & put one into Panama.


I think Panama is a little bit too early. CA Scoring does not appear until Turn 4 or later. Early action points are very very important and are best to be used in the most efficient places (the three Early War Scoring Regions). Panama can wait.

US putting 2IP into Egypt also give USSR a chance to lower the DEFCON to 3, i.e. US may lose the entire western Asia if the final coup on Iran fails. This would be a great blow if the dice roll does not favor you.

My solution would be: keeping DEFCON at 4 and Middle East at 'Presence'.

A DEFCON 4 status can prevent USSR from penetrating through Pakistan or Afg. Once the Soviet ever set foot on either of the 2-stability Asian countries, the US can attempt to disrupt it through coup action. Also, thanks to the coup routine in the Game (DEFCON 3 at start and USSR moving first every Turn) and bad events, Middle East isn't somewhere the US can fight for. So a presence at Mid East of three points is totally acceptable. Do remember that losing Iran at first move means Europe is SAFE, and a further Europe Domination would be possible.

So, in order to maintain DEFCON at 4 and Middle East at 'Presence', I will grab Jordan, the non-battleground. Then USSR has no battleground to coup except Panama (not efficient at this point) and Israel (4 stab), and dare not run into Asia. If Soviet coup a non-battleground, Us can either roup it back or just leave it be, as long as you can at least do the Presence and won't allow any Domination of your opponent.


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Kyeong-ho Wang
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speltor wrote:
sampal wrote:
What I want to ask is that 'what is the best reaction as a US player after USSR takes Iran successfully in first round?



Sorry, couldn't help myself.


no offense but I can't understand what it means

anyone can explain to me? is there any problem to me?
 
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Matthew Totonchy
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I think people are missing another reason Riki is suggesting Egypt beyond Nasser and access to Libya. If the USSR player decides again to coup on AR2 and targets Egypt, Defcon drops to 3 and the US player can play into malaysia safely, and take Thailand on AR3. Thailand is probably the most important country in the early war, and arguably the game. Assuming the USSR is well established in Iran after its AR1 coup, it is extremely difficult for the US to break into the Asia/ME triangle. By going into malaysia, the USSR can only grab Thailand by using destalinization, and doing so that early means less influence in Europe, and probably no access to South America for the USSR. Decolonization will not be sufficient since the US player can control Thailand with a 3 to 4 Ops card the following turn.

If the US plays into Jordan as was suggested. The USSR can coup in Panama, and then safely move into the asia/me triangle. If the panama coup is successful, then the US is in a very tough position come mid war and CA could become a nightmare if Fidel shows up.

There are other options of course, but without more knowledge of what you have in your hand it is difficult to provide other suggestions.

I also recommend Riki's post about a year ago on no putting influence in W. Ger. It is a good discussion of when to do it and why it can be effective.

Your main concern at that junction is not getting kicked out of ME the next turn with something like suez or arab-israeli war. IP in Europe doesn't make much sense since France has yet to be resolved and going into Asia while defcon is at 4 opens you up to getting couped in malaysia and solidifying USSR domination of the region.
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sampal wrote:
no offense but I can't understand what it means

anyone can explain to me? is there any problem to me?


Hi Kyeong-Ho Wang, that was just my bad attempt at humor. My Apologies. This is nothing towards you, as mentioned above you have communicated your question better than many English native speakers.

The joke in the picture is that the only solution to the situation is to give up and flip the game board. The poor language used is the style of the website from which the picture was taken, which often makes fun of internet slang and the way that some people write on the internet. Again, this is nothing towards you, I just thought it was a funny picture for the question "What is the best reaction as a US player after USSR takes Iran...".

Otherwise I'm also following this thread for the great suggestions as I am also a new TS player. Thanks for posting this question, and also thank you to all those posting more meaningful replies!
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Gong Lu Cheng
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My point, DEFCON 4 is a very solid protection for the US player in the initial gaming stage.

The first three Turns are extremely difficult for US. The goal of US player should be to disrupt, delay, hamper, buy time, and wait for the better US cards added into the deck.

A DEFCON 4 situation would be a very good environment to do it. First, USSR is reluctant to step into the Asia battleground; second, when any of the mid-east or third world battleground get couped, US can immediately coup it back; third, US can coup any valuable non-battleground on the map safe the Southern Europe countries.

I agree that Thai is one of the most critical countries in the game and i will do everything I can to secure it. However, compared to the whole Mid-Asia triangle, i.e. Iran + Afghani + Pakistan, which contains two battlegrounds, one superpower neighbor plus the access to another battleground (India), even Thailand can wait. Because, if USSR does not enter Pakistan or Afghani, Asia would never be dominated, so the US does not need Thailand at all. You take Thailand, get 1 point, good, but at the cost of losing the Mid-Asia triangle?

What I mean is, Defcon is doomed to drop below 4, but not by US. At some point, USSR player will automatically find a way to drop the Defcon to 3 by coup action, that's when you start to try revenging Iran and aiming at Thailand.

That's why I suggest Jordan other than Egypt: Jordan help US keeping at the Defcon 4 level. If Soviet launches a coup on Panama, the US can try a retaliation coup right upon Iran. If successful, the scoring of Middle East becomes US 6 vs USSR 0. And the US can still do something on Malay, and on Europe, and all.

As US player, I just love Defcon 4 so much. If Defcon is at 4 in the final action round, I usually find somewhere meaningless to coup, such as Iraq or North Korea, so as to keep it at 4 in the next Turn.
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point is that (as Riku pointed out) almost all depends on the influence the USSR receives after their coup in Iran.

1 or 2 IP are well worth couping. This opens the Australia road for the US, and could end up with a decent amount of ip's in Iran, which the USSR hardly has anyway of countering, except for the re-coup.
Which I think is a good thing. Since this stalls the USSR and doesn't let him spread out.

If the USSR is on 3 or more after his/her intial coup, couping back isn't OPS well spent.
I like Riku's suggestion of Egypt (which also sort of forces the USSR to actually play Nasser, which helps Saddat in mid-war).

Moving in to South America is a bold move (Let me rephrase that to "I wouldn't have the balls for it), but not bad one.
I think that mostly depends on your cards. Having USSR-related Europe cards (like DeGaulle or Socialist gov.'s), would perhaps force your move a little more conservative to Europe.
Otherwise to option for Costa Rica is always open, and a safe (chicken) option against Colombia.

Cheers, Haring
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If the USSR has only 1 ip in Iran after his coup (usually only happens if he rolls a 2 after using a 4 ops card) it may be worth couping back but otherwise I usually wouldn't do it unless I had a very ops-heavy hand.

When you drop DEFCON to 3 as US you'll lose Thailand if he has any of the 3 problem cards so I would be loath to do it unless I had two of them in my hand.

If he does have one of them and takes Thailand, give it up and spread out in the Middle East and Central/South America to counterbalance his likely Dominance of Asia, it's all about balancing things if you can as the US in Early War, until the card advantage swings over to you.
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Kyeong-ho Wang
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speltor wrote:
sampal wrote:
no offense but I can't understand what it means

anyone can explain to me? is there any problem to me?


Hi Kyeong-Ho Wang, that was just my bad attempt at humor. My Apologies. This is nothing towards you, as mentioned above you have communicated your question better than many English native speakers.

The joke in the picture is that the only solution to the situation is to give up and flip the game board. The poor language used is the style of the website from which the picture was taken, which often makes fun of internet slang and the way that some people write on the internet. Again, this is nothing towards you, I just thought it was a funny picture for the question "What is the best reaction as a US player after USSR takes Iran...".

Otherwise I'm also following this thread for the great suggestions as I am also a new TS player. Thanks for posting this question, and also thank you to all those posting more meaningful replies!



Now I can understand

thank you for your kind explanation
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Edward
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I wrote a general article on how to think of Turn 1. As US, you have so many things you need to defend on Turn 1 that you're happy with this Turn 1 DEFCON 4 stall. The worst possible outcome is when DEFCON quickly drops and all of a sudden you need to contest Asia as well as everything else you're supposed to be working on.
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There is no need to immediatly respond.
As a US you have ton of options (in no particular order: score asia/europe for nil, resolve korea with korean war, resolve france after playing suez/degaulle, taking canada with norad, taking spain/greece/turkey, one point in costa rica, lebanon/jordan/egypt).

I dont like to play into panama and really hate points into columbia so early, but even these are possible.

With lots of ops, you can take malaysia.

You generally dont want to drop defcon further without juicy target. If you do, the udssr can put a lot of pressure on you by playing vietnam revolts OR decolonization OR destalisation. In addition to that the udssr can just drop its ops into afghanistan/pakistan/india/burma without fearing a coup. If the udssr drops defcon to 3, immediatly move into malaysia.


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