Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We had a really, really strange game the other day. We've played 25 times or so, which isn't tons, but is certainly a few games and we've never seen anything like this before.

We bought all the combines. We bought all the crashes. We bought all the double crashes. We bought every single chip except the 'Combos are Hard', which we did buy but came back out as they were used and seemed pointless to buy again since there was nothing to acquire with them. And they were trapped. We even bought so many '4' games that we had to figure out what to do when someone wanted to combine to a 4 and there were none to gain.

It looked like a sure end when Valerie used her bonus turn and sent over two sets of 4 chips, but Setsuki had combines and a double crash ready to go and recover.

Has anyone else seen a game like that? Was this just a random freak occurrence? Anyone come up with an emergency sudden death endgame condition when things jam up?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
colin langton
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
There is a new rule being tested (well, pretty much accepted at this point) that is described here, to deal with this exact situation. afaik you can just drop this rule into the existing game, with only good results. (I think the current plan is to publish a version with these and other modifications alongside the expansion, when it comes out, but i'm not sure on that)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Klaus Musstermann
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes Panic Time oughta fix that issue right quick.

Were you exclusively crashing 4s or did you crash a lot of counter-ables? I can't really fathom how a game could literally take the hundreds of turns (almost 200 actually?) needed to exhaust the entire bank but I figure crashing lots of 1s probably has something to do with it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SuperKlaus wrote:
Yes Panic Time oughta fix that issue right quick.

Were you exclusively crashing 4s or did you crash a lot of counter-ables? I can't really fathom how a game could literally take the hundreds of turns (almost 200 actually?) needed to exhaust the entire bank but I figure crashing lots of 1s probably has something to do with it.

Certainly not exclusively. When you're at 10 gems and can't get to a 4, you crash what you've got
I think more delays were caused by crashing a 3 and having another 3 counter-crashed into it than by crashing 1s.
But where are you coming up with 200 turns? There's about 105 chips, and we were often buying more than one a turn when we hit 7-8 gems and couldn't afford a double crash. And playing a Combos are Hard would get us two gems plus buying another one. We also picked up 2 cost chips via trading out wounds (from err...what's it called, Risky Move? Gives you 3 actions for a wound) with Training Day.

Nowhere near 200 turns. Sure was our longest game ever. I mean sure, we run out some chips regularly, but not more than one or two - and we've never run out a purple stack before!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Klaus Musstermann
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah I guess I over-estimated. Still an outlandishly long time. I would say buying more than 1 chip a turn when you were rich later game was probably a factor too though. Likely caused inefficient deck bloat.

Naturally if you gotta CC to live then you do it. Next time though if you have a 3 coming at you, examine your hand - do you have to CC it to live? If not, try accepting it and sending that right back at your opponent / riding a higher pile draw bonus. I used to CC everything possible when I began playing but these days I won't CC (in the late game) if I don't need to for survival. Often you must accept a high pile in order to have the ammo needed to deliver a killing blow.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joey
msg tools
mbmbmb
Panic Time exists to fix exactly this (rare but annoying) problem. In a 2-player game, whenever two bank stacks are empty (including combines, crash, etc) ante increases to 2-gems. Three empty => 3-gems. Four empty => (you guessed it) 4-gems. Increases the pace if a game starts to lag.

Panic time scales for 3- and 4-player games too, kicking in at 3 empty piles and 4 empty piles respectively.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Likely caused inefficient deck bloat.

Um, actually the game ran so long because our decks were all doing so good. A great mix of draws and actions so we could always manage to do a few combines and a crash on our turns - hence having people survive getting hit with 8 gems
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Klaus Musstermann
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Do you remember your bank? I'm curious now. And maybe knowing will help me stop saying wrong things.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hmm, let's see. I know we had:
Combos Are Hard
Roundhouse
Its a Trap
Risky Move (? Lets you take 3 actions for a wound)
Gem Essence (? Get rid of 1 gem for actions of 4 colors)
Training Day

There was a chip to draw 3, and I think another draw chip of some sort, then 2 attack chips that had red arrows - possibly the one to force a 1 chip ante and the one to split a gem in an opponent's gem pile (which did make it a bit riskier to try to keep building gems).

The characters were Valerie, Setsuki, Lum and Rook.

With the extra actions and extra chip draws, we kept being able to chain a lot of chips together. Plus we usually had enough in the pile to be starting a hand with several chips.

I mostly just think it was a weird fluke where hands kept coming up in synch so we could always stay alive. Like I said, in 30ish games so far I've never even seen a purple emptied, much less more than one purple pile emptied!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Douglas Buel
United States
Hollywood
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, yeah, two things, for these situations:

1. "Panic time": When the number of empty bank stacks equals the number of (remaining) players, antes are of 2-gems instead of 1-gems. This is called Panic Time. When the number of empty bank stacks surpasses the number of (remaining) players by 1, antes are of 3-gems, and this is called Danger Time. And as you might imagine, when the number of empty bank stacks exceeds the number of (remaining) players by 2, antes are of 4-gems, and this is called Deadly Time. This is a new (optional?) rule being tested on the official site. It's really good. Note that when you use this rule, you must also use the rule that the chips of killed players do not return to the bank.

2. When someone plays a Combine, and wants to combine into a gem that is sold out from the bank stacks, you must use something as a proxy. Combining is never "impossible because that gem is sold out." This is how it works in the online version. (In the online version, when you combine into for example a 2-gem but the 2-gems are sold out, you get a blue proxy 2-gem in your gem pile.) If the proxy would go to the bank, remove it instead, so that that bank stack stays empty.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
StormKnight wrote:
Risky Move (? Lets you take 3 actions for a wound)


Recklessness. Risky Move is the name of another chip in the game but the one you're describing is Recklessness

and yeah I've seen games like this, where everyone is doing a little "too good." Congrats on the well built decks. Definitely not the norm considering how easy it is to die in this game but it happens.

I've had some really epic 2 player games that went on a while and felt really really good and they're rare enough that it never really bothered me, but the official "Panic Time" rules do seem like they should prevent these kinds of games from outstaying their welcome (having the odd long epic game is weird when the expected play time is usually like 20 minutes) and it works pretty well for the theme since many puzzle video games have a "speed up" feature as the game goes on
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth J. Mazor
United States
Brookline
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
I remember the first epic I had on the dev site. My Arg(Geig?) vs Fry's Sets(?). Pretty much everything empty. On and on -- I think we eventually just had to call it so I could leave work. That was definitely more bloat than awesome.

The saddest thing with a long game is that as the decks bloat, the characters start to get lost in the bloat and play more and more the same. Three character chips in 40+ isn't much. Panic time sounds great for keeping games short, but it might be fun to have supplemental late game character chips (LEVEL 3 SUPER COMBO!) to throw in -- or just a second copy of the standard char. chips.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.