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Subject: Boardgames are too hard and complex. rss

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Isaac Heres
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I been watching video reviews of games like Eclipse, Battleship galaxies, The Golden City, Kingdom Builder, Castle Panic and Core Worlds and they are so hard to understandshake

With that said, I wish I haven't gotten into the hobby of boardgaming and never invested in games that I own like World of Warcraft; The Adventure game, DOOM, Dungeonquest (just to name a few). And instead I should have kept my attention on video gaming.

All these new boardgames that came out last year, 2010 or coming soon are very difficult to figure out. And they turn me down

Why can boardgames be so simple?

You know what, I play games by myself and most boardgame requires you to play with more people. Video gaming is good for solo play and you can just sit back on the couch and let the controls do all the action
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Kenny VenOsdel
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This may be one of the strangest posts I've ever read. There are lots of boardgames that aren't too hard, don't just focus on the new releases. If you want easier games they are out there, just ask and we can point some out. As for videogames that do all the work for you and you can just sit back, I guess they have their place, but its not in my house.
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Geoff Hall
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Both Kingdom Builder and Castle Panic (just to cite 2 games from your very limited list of examples) are simple. My 8 year old can play Castle Panic and Kingdom Builder isn't much more difficult.

There are LOTS of easy, simple-to-understand games out there. They are commonly referred to as gateway games and are generally less rules intensive than such 'classics' as Monopoly. The difference is that someone has to learn the rules instead of being taught them (usually incorrectly) from a relative.

Some examples of good gateway games would be Ticket to Ride, Carcassonne: Hunters and Gatherers, Hey, That's My Fish!, Tsuro, Ingenious, etc.

Then there are the simple, filler games that are often even easier than that...

Complicated? Sure, there are complicated beasts of games out there in the boardgaming world. To label all boardgames as complicated is, however, rather ridiculous.
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Freelance Police
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Do a search on "gateway" in the geeklist.

Nothing wrong with the easier and more social party games. Say Anything and Wits and Wagers are my favorites.
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Val Ruza
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There are board games that are easier to learn (1 or 2 pages of rules) and there are board games that are playable solo. Dungeonquest on your list is playable solo. I would look for some gaming groups in you area if you can and go out to a session and see if you enjoy that.
 
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Chris Ferejohn
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Or, you know, play video games. If you enjoy them (or hiking, fishing, juggling, yak herding, knitting, underwater basket weaving, etc.) more than board games, then by all means, follow your inner muse/child/demon.
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Norman Mueller
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I'm ignoring my nagging feeling that someone is trying to pull our leg here and say that completely understanding Kingdom Builder is easier than knowing all your possible skills in WoW, memorizing Streetfighter combos. Not even speaking of Hearts of Iron.
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David
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I'm sorry to say this but if you really prefer playing solo then you are better off with video games...

As for simple games I suggest you give Kingdom Builder another chance. I don't know what video you watched but it's actually not that hard to understand. It takes a while to learn how to play *well* but if everyone is just starting out then that's not an issue.

1. You draw a terrain card
2. You put three houses on a hex of that terrain
3. You must build adjacent to your existing houses if possible
4. You may use the special tiles

Repeat. That's roughly it. The complexity of figuring out a good move depends on the locations involved. For your first game I suggest you stay away from the Barn, Paddock and Harbor.

There are plenty of simpler games out there. For Example:
* Ubongo - Be the first to fit your small tiles into a certain shape.
* 6 nimmt! - Build rows of cards in ascending value. The person who plays the 6th card of the row must take it for negative points.
* Bohnanza - Plant beans to get gold coins. Trade away the ones that don't fit for those that do...
* Keltis - Build rows of cards in ascending or descending order to move pawns.

Just to name a few.
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Adrian Hague
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Rilly? I have a hard time getting my bonce round the combat amd magic systems of most modern console JRPG's. If you can figure some of those out, boardgames shouldn't present much of a problem.

Just don't start with something like High Frontier!
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Peter Ferguson
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kvenosdel wrote:
This may be one of the strangest posts I've ever read. There are lots of boardgames that aren't too hard, don't just focus on the new releases. If you want easier games they are out there, just ask and we can point some out. As for videogames that do all the work for you and you can just sit back, I guess they have their place, but its not in my house.


Especially from a user named boardgamefreak2geek

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Italian Seismologist
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Kempeth wrote:
I'm sorry to say this but if you really prefer playing solo then you are better off with video games...

As for simple games I suggest you give Kingdom Builder another chance. I don't know what video you watched but it's actually not that hard to understand. It takes a while to learn how to play *well* but if everyone is just starting out then that's not an issue.

1. You draw a terrain card
2. You put three houses on a hex of that terrain
3. You must build adjacent to your existing houses if possible
4. You may use the special tiles

Repeat. That's roughly it. The complexity of figuring out a good move depends on the locations involved. For your first game I suggest you stay away from the Barn, Paddock and Harbor.

There are plenty of simpler games out there. For Example:
* Ubongo - Be the first to fit your small tiles into a certain shape.
* 6 nimmt! - Build rows of cards in ascending value. The person who plays the 6th card of the row must take it for negative points.
* Bohnanza - Plant beans to get gold coins. Trade away the ones that don't fit for those that do...
* Keltis - Build rows of cards in ascending or descending order to move pawns.

Just to name a few.


i would have to disagree with you a little there.. there are plenty of games that play very well with one player, and i would rather play them then sit at a computer and completely turn off my imagination.

Boardgamefreak2geek wrote:

You know what, I play games by myself and most boardgame requires you to play with more people. Video gaming is good for solo play and you can just sit back on the couch and let the controls do all the action


then buy more solo games, or games that play well solo. have a look through the top games on BGG for games that have a low weight and play 1+ people. there are plenty of good games out there. if you are letting the console game do all the actions you may as well buy a load of movies on amazon and watch them... or read 'chose your own adventure' books.

if you dont have a regular gaming group or have difficulty finding someone to game with then why not try a play by mail game of some sort. there are plenty of board game ports on-line that have reasonably good AI as well.
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Michael Schroeder
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Gatekeeper3000 wrote:
kvenosdel wrote:
This may be one of the strangest posts I've ever read. There are lots of boardgames that aren't too hard, don't just focus on the new releases. If you want easier games they are out there, just ask and we can point some out. As for videogames that do all the work for you and you can just sit back, I guess they have their place, but its not in my house.


Especially from a user named boardgamefreak2geek



I totally agree with both of you on this one...
 
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Holger Hannemann
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Boardgamefreak2geek wrote:

You know what, I play games by myself and most boardgame requires you to play with more people. Video gaming is good for solo play and you can just sit back on the couch and let the controls do all the action


If you can't or don't want to play with other people then I guess boardgaming just won't work for you. There are just a couple of good non-war-sologames but they are really the exception.
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J J
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Go and read some of his other threads. There's something not quite right with Isaac; that or the BGG rule about direct accusations applies...
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Byron
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If you watch reviews and determine that they are too difficult for you, why do you keep buying them? If you like video games, stick with them.
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Clare Cannon
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Quote:
I been watching video reviews of games like Eclipse, Battleship galaxies, The Golden City, Kingdom Builder, Castle Panic and Core Worlds and they are so hard to understand



Castle panic ....Really? My 6 yr old figured out this game and loves it (she read the rule book with a bit of help on the long words and taught us how to play)

Surly what you mean is you don't have anyone to play with and so the games don't play so well. Generally that is the case because boardgames are designed for multiple players wilst videoe games are designed for a single player.
 
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norman rule
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Motive and games listed aside, he makes a valid point.

Some game designers seem to think that making a game more complex automatically makes it a better game.

"Let's add THIS shaped bit to do this, and THAT shaped bit to do that.... and two more decks of cards! Oh, wait... we need an appendix to give the full write up for each of the 72 cards in this deck! There's still room in the box? Ok, we can add more bits!"

There's a lot to be said for elegant simplicity in game play, and that seems to have gone out of fashion.
 
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Matthew Roskam
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I play both video games and board games, I think having both as an interest is a good thing. One of the appeals for board gaming is that you get to understand how the game works, what your odds really are, where as in most video games that is all hidden. It does come down to personal preference, but I believe there are board games out there that will cater to every complexity threshold. As mentioned, try some of the games like Ticket to Ride, Carcassonne, and Lords of Vegas before you write everything off.
 
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Derek
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Generally:

Video games = more emphasis on dexterity, lighter on strategy

Board games = more emphasis on strategy, lighter on dexterity

Take your pick.



Also, please don't come in and point out the obvious excceptions to this rule... I was speaking in very general terms.
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Boardgamefreak2geek wrote:
I been watching video reviews of games like Eclipse, Battleship galaxies, The Golden City, Kingdom Builder, Castle Panic and Core Worlds and they are so hard to understandshake

With that said, I wish I haven't gotten into the hobby of boardgaming and never invested in games that I own like World of Warcraft; The Adventure game, DOOM, Dungeonquest (just to name a few). And instead I should have kept my attention on video gaming.

All these new boardgames that came out last year, 2010 or coming soon are very difficult to figure out. And they turn me down

Why can boardgames be so simple?

You know what, I play games by myself and most boardgame requires you to play with more people. Video gaming is good for solo play and you can just sit back on the couch and let the controls do all the action


Sounds like your solution is already in your post. Play Video games if that's your thing. No one is forcing you to boardgame.
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Brent T.
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Very good suggestions for our fellow Geek Isaac, but it appears more "thinking out loud" than a question or asking for help. Hopefully his mind is still open, but it does not appear that way to me.

What he needs is a good game group to get into, hopefully this site can get him some good geeks to play with. Some rule books do not explain games well and having someone personally teaching is a heck of a lot better.
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Joe
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Boardgamefreak2geek wrote:
I been watching video reviews of games like Eclipse, Battleship galaxies, The Golden City, Kingdom Builder, Castle Panic and Core Worlds and they are so hard to understandshake

With that said, I wish I haven't gotten into the hobby of boardgaming and never invested in games that I own like World of Warcraft; The Adventure game, DOOM, Dungeonquest (just to name a few). And instead I should have kept my attention on video gaming.

All these new boardgames that came out last year, 2010 or coming soon are very difficult to figure out. And they turn me down

Why can boardgames be so simple?

You know what, I play games by myself and most boardgame requires you to play with more people. Video gaming is good for solo play and you can just sit back on the couch and let the controls do all the action

Could it be a language barrier that is causing additional problems with your understanding game rules? If English is not your native language, I can see that making things harder.
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Isaac Heres
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Thanks guys, a Gaming group is the best route to go. I know of a store here in my country that sells boardgames and have contacts to gaming groups. I hope they are on facebook
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Liam
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Isaac on the whole I am with you - Castle Panic is worth another look.

I have found that a good deal of the big budget heavy theme games just don't work for what I want in a games although I am easily seduced by pretty despotic images and minis.

I'd recommend you take a look at the high ranking gateway and family games.

Also check out the likes of this post HELP! I think I love GATEWAYS better than any other type of game!!

Some folks above have been rather unkind to you - You'll have to forgive them for that.

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Isaac Heres
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monkeyhandz wrote:
Isaac on the whole I am with you - Castle Panic is worth another look.

I have found that a good deal of the big budget heavy theme games just don't work for what I want in a games although I am easily seduced by pretty despotic images and minis.

I'd recommend you take a look at the high ranking gateway and family games.

Also check out the likes of this post HELP! I think I love GATEWAYS better than any other type of game!!

Some folks above have been rather unkind to you - You'll have to forgive them for that.



this thread was to be expected for negative feedbacks, I had forgive in advance. Only one person wrote back commenting "Troll" but I forgive them.
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