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Subject: Feedback Requested - Hot Spots & Flare Ups - Rulebook V2.0 rss

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Travis Worthington
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This has been an area of questions. Am currently updating the rules and wanted feedback on these as proposed new language for this section (page 10):

Hot Spots & Flare Ups

Real fires get harder to fight the longer they are burning – the building heats up and combustible materials are brought closer and closer to their flash points. The Experienced game introduces Hot Spots and Flare Ups to simulate this progression.

When the Target Space of the Advance Fire roll contains a Hot Spot you have triggered a Flare Up and will roll to Advance the fire an additional time. First complete the current Advance Fire, then roll the dice again and Advance the Fire. A turn is not limited to one, two, or even three Flare Ups. Keep adding rolls every time the Advance Fire Target Space contains a Hot Spot.

Flare Ups also increase the number of Hot Spots, making it easier for more Flare Ups to happen later in the game. After resolving all Flare Ups, add a Hot Spot marker to the Target Space of the last Advance Fire roll.

Hot Spots do not have any affect to Smoke or Fire markers.

Hot Spots are not removed from the board once placed, they can not be Extinguished.


Thanks for the feedback
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Tim Stellmach
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Re: Feedback Requested - Hot Spots & Flare Ups
Couple of proofreading points to start with:

Quote:
Hot Spots do not have any affect to on Smoke or Fire markers.

Hot Spots are not removed from the board once placed,: they can not cannot be Extinguished.
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Tim Stellmach
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Re: Feedback Requested - Hot Spots & Flare Ups
I'm a bit concerned about the "an additional time" language, since Hot Spots can and do trigger more than one additional Advance Fire roll per turn. Though you certainly do clarify it later, some people get weird about about the slightest seeming contradictions.

For what it's worth, when explaining Hot Spots, I usually say that when the Advance Fire roll indicates a Hot Spot, you place smoke (or fire, or an explosion) as usual, but do not count that roll as your Advance Fire roll for the turn. Therefore, you must continue rolling (and placing tokens) until the Advance Fire roll indicates a space without a Hot Spot. And so on.
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Brook Gentlestream
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Re: Feedback Requested - Hot Spots & Flare Ups

I feel at least one additional sentence may be necessary to clarify that only one hot spot marker is added to the board regardless of how many flareups occur.

Perhaps something like this:

On any given turn in which at least one flare up occurs, one (and only one) hot spot marker will be to the board. These hot spot markers are taken from the yellow spaces that were populated with hot spot markers during game setups. If there are no hot spot markers available in the yellow circles, then no further hot spot markers will be added.
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jason roberts
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Re: Feedback Requested - Hot Spots & Flare Ups
I agree with Brook as that's how I'm playing it
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Mike Hulsebus
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Re: Feedback Requested - Hot Spots & Flare Ups
What if you kept the first paragraph and then changed the rest to:

"When the Target Space of the Advance Fire roll contains a Hot Spot you have triggered a Flare Up: resolve that roll as normal and then repeat the Advance Fire phase.

At the end of a turn where a hot spot spot was placed on the board, place a hot spot token in the last Target Space rolled. If you keep rolling hot spot locations, it can be possible to repeat the Advance Fire phase many times!

Important: Hot spot tokens in no way affect fire and how it spreads: they cannot be removed from the board or extinguished once placed and they do not have any affect on Smoke or Fire markers. Their only effect is to repeat the Advance Fire phase."

[Obviously it would have to be slightly reworded to keep terminology consistant]

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Lee Valentine
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Edit -- added in a version of Brook's language.

Handle it with the order of resolution and it should be unambiguous. You'll use the order of resolution like a flowchart. Move Knocked Down rules so that Hot Spots and Order of Resolution come one right after the other. You can edit this down to size, but the important thing is the "go back to step 1a" and the introduction of a new step 6. Keep those, and I think this will work smoothly.



Hot Spots & Flare Ups

Real fires get harder to fight the longer they are burning – the building heats up and combustible materials are brought closer and closer to their flash points. The Experienced game introduces Hot Spots and Flare Ups to simulate this progression.

When the Target Space of the Advance Fire roll contains a Hot Spot you have triggered a Flare Up and will repeat some of the steps in the Order or Resolution below, potentially generating additional threats. A turn is not limited to one, two, or even three Flare Ups. As noted below, keep adding rolls every time the Advance Fire Target Space contains a Hot Spot.

Flare Ups also increase the number of Hot Spots, making it easier for more Flare Ups to happen later in the game. After resolving all Flare Ups, add a Hot Spot marker to the Target Space of the last Advance Fire roll per step 6 of the Order of Resolution below. This Hot Spot marker is taken from the yellow spaces that were populated with Hot Spot markers during game's setup. If there are no Hot Spot markers available in the yellow circles, do not add a Hot Spot marker.

Flare Ups have no other effect on the game. Except as otherwise noted, Hot Spots do not affect Smoke or Fire markers. Hot Spots are not normally removed from the board once placed (except where explicitly noted by special scenario rules or the powers of some Firefighters). Hot Spots cannot be Extinguished.



Order of Resolution

In the Experienced game the Advance Fire phase has a number of different steps. The order in which the steps should be
completed is:

0. There have been no Flare Ups yet this turn (this is a reminder, and not an actual step).
1a. Roll for a target space to Advance the Fire
1b. Advance the Fire.
2. Resolve any Explosions if needed.
3. Resolve any Flashovers if needed.
4. Resolve any Hazmat explosions if needed.
• Add a Hot Spot marker to the Hazmat space if there was a Hazmat Explosion.
5. If the target space rolled the last time you completed step 1a contained a Hot Spot, then a Flare Up has been generated, go back to step 1a of the order of resolution and generate a new target space, completing all subsequent steps as usual.
6. If at least one Flare Up has been generated during the current player's turn then place a Hot Spot marker on the space you targeted the last time you completed step 1a. This space will be one that did not previously have a Hot Spot marker.
7. Resolve Knock Downs, Lost POI or Victims
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Steve Duff
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timstellmach wrote:
Couple of proofreading points to start with:

Quote:
Hot Spots do not have any affect to on Smoke or Fire markers.


Shouldn't that be "effect", not "affect"? It should be one of:

Hot Spots do not have any effect on Smoke or Fire markers.

or

Hot Spots do not affect Smoke or Fire markers.
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Peter Hendee
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It took me a while to figure out what this meant.

11. Roll for Hot Spots. If the Target space has a Hot Spot marker, roll again. Place a Hot Spot marker in the Target
space.
• 3 additional Hot Spots if playing at the Veteran or Heroic difficulty level.
• 2 additional Hot Spots if playing with 3 Firefighters
• 3 additional Hot Spots if playing with 4 (or more ) Firefighters
Place 6 (12 at the Heroic level) of the remaining Hot Spot markers on the board (on the small yellow circles) for
later use and the rest back into the box.

Maybe something like this?

11. Place Hot Spots on the board.
Place 6 (12 at the Heroic level) Hot Spot markers on the board (on the small yellow circles) for later use.

Place 3 additional Hot Spots if playing at the Veteran or Heroic difficulty level by rolling for the target space. If the target space has a Hot Spot marker, roll again.
•Add 2 additional Hot Spots if playing with 3 Firefighters
•Or add 3 additional Hot Spots if playing with 4 (or more ) Firefighters

Place any remaining Hot Spots back into the box.






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mikehulsebus wrote:
What if you kept the first paragraph and then changed the rest to:

"When the Target Space of the Advance Fire roll contains a Hot Spot you have triggered a Flare Up: resolve that roll as normal and then repeat the Advance Fire phase.

At the end of a turn where at least one hot spot spot was rolled placed on the board, place a new hot spot token in the last Target Space rolled. If you keep rolling hot spot locations, it can be possible to repeat the Advance Fire phase many times!

Important: Hot spot tokens in no way affect fire and how it spreads: they cannot be removed from the board or extinguished once placed and they do not have any affect on Smoke or Fire markers. Their only effect is to repeat the Advance Fire phase."

[Obviously it would have to be slightly reworded to keep terminology consistant]



just a minor change proposal...
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T Worthington wrote:
This has been an area of questions. Am currently updating the rules and wanted feedback on these as proposed new language for this section (page 10):

Hot Spots & Flare Ups

Real fires get harder to fight the longer they are burning – the building heats up and combustible materials are brought closer and closer to their flash points. The Experienced game introduces Hot Spots and Flare Ups to simulate this progression.

When the Target Space of the Advance Fire roll contains a Hot Spot you have triggered a Flare Up and will roll to Advance the fire an additional time. First complete the current Advance Fire, then roll the dice again and Advance the Fire. A turn is not limited to one, two, or even three Flare Ups. Keep adding rolls every time the Advance Fire Target Space contains a Hot Spot.
Flare Ups also increase the number of Hot Spots,
making it easier for more Flare Ups to happen later in the game.
After resolving all Flare Ups, add a Hot Spot marker to the Target Space of the last Advance Fire roll.

Hot Spots do not have any affect to Smoke or Fire markers.

Hot Spots are not removed from the board once placed, they can not be Extinguished.



For me the red line should be removed, because it only distracts me from the last very important sentence.
For me the same is true for the orange line, repetition and distraction before the important last line.
Less is more,

When removing both orange and red lines is to much, you could replace both colors by the sentence:
you can have multiple consecutive Flare Ups
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Mike Hulsebus
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JeVo wrote:
just a minor change proposal...


Yeah, that's better.
 
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Hot Spot clarification
Quote:
After resolving all Flare Ups, add a Hot Spot marker to the Target Space of the last Advance Fire roll.

I don't need to add a new Hot Spot unless there is Hot Spot on the Target Space of the Advance Fire roll. (Because NO Flare Up happened)

Correct?
 
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Mike Hulsebus
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bokuteki wrote:
Quote:
After resolving all Flare Ups, add a Hot Spot marker to the Target Space of the last Advance Fire roll.

I don't need to add a new Hot Spot unless there is Hot Spot on the Target Space of the Advance Fire roll. (Because NO Flare Up happened)

Correct?


Right: if you make your Advance Fire roll and don't hit a hot spot, you continue on to the next turn without adding a hot spot to the board.
 
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Lee Griffiths
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[quote]Place 3 additional Hot Spots if playing at the Veteran or Heroic difficulty level by rolling for the target space. If the target space has a Hot Spot marker, roll again.
•Add 2 additional Hot Spots if playing with 3 Firefighters
•Or add 3 additional Hot Spots if playing with 4 (or more ) Firefighters
[/quote]


This is an OR? I've been playing:

3 Firefighters get 2 hotspots
4 Firefighters get 5 (2+3).

Which is the officially correct version?
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Jae
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Poddster wrote:
[quote]Place 3 additional Hot Spots if playing at the Veteran or Heroic difficulty level by rolling for the target space. If the target space has a Hot Spot marker, roll again.
•Add 2 additional Hot Spots if playing with 3 Firefighters
•Or add 3 additional Hot Spots if playing with 4 (or more ) Firefighters
[/quote]


This is an OR? I've been playing:

3 Firefighters get 2 hotspots
4 Firefighters get 5 (2+3).

Which is the officially correct version?


I would also like to know, is it cumulative or is it instead of?


answered here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/7917359#7917359

Instead of. Use EITHER the 2 for 3 firefighters OR 3 for four or more firefighters.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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Bagherra wrote:
Poddster wrote:
[quote]Place 3 additional Hot Spots if playing at the Veteran or Heroic difficulty level by rolling for the target space. If the target space has a Hot Spot marker, roll again.
•Add 2 additional Hot Spots if playing with 3 Firefighters
•Or add 3 additional Hot Spots if playing with 4 (or more ) Firefighters
[/quote]


This is an OR? I've been playing:

3 Firefighters get 2 hotspots
4 Firefighters get 5 (2+3).

Which is the officially correct version?


I would also like to know, is it cumulative or is it instead of?


answered here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/7917359#7917359

Instead of. Use EITHER the 2 for 3 firefighters OR 3 for four or more firefighters.


Doh! We've been playing with 11 starting hot-spots on Veteran level with 4 firefighters (3 from initial explosions, 3 for Veteran, 2 for 3+ players, and 3 for 4+ players). We were unsure at first, but the game comes with enough hot-spots (24) to set up 12 in this way and have 12 left in reserve for Heroic mode (note that Heroic has one more initial explosion)... so I thought we were doing it right. I guess a 4+ firefighter game on Heroic difficulty only needs 22 hot-spots in total.

To clarify, perhaps the rules could be worded:

- If playing with exactly 3 firefighters, add 2 additional Hot Spots.
- If playing with 4 or more firefighters, add 3 additional Hot Spots instead.
 
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Tod Andrew
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If no Hot Spot markers remain, then no further Hot Spots will be placed.


So if all hot spots have been placed, and the advance fire target has a hot spot (hence a flare up occurs), do we

- NOT advance the fire

Or

- advance the fire, without adding a hot spot
 
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Zeddy
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tod_13 wrote:
So if all hot spots have been placed, and the advance fire target has a hot spot (hence a flare up occurs),
do your second option:
tod_13 wrote:


- advance the fire, without adding a hot spot
 
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Tod Andrew
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Gnarly wrote:
tod_13 wrote:
So if all hot spots have been placed, and the advance fire target has a hot spot (hence a flare up occurs),
do your second option:
tod_13 wrote:


- advance the fire, without adding a hot spot


Thanks kindly.
 
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