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Subject: Feedback Requested - Changing the Rules - Rulebook v2.0 rss

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Travis Worthington
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I would like to include this in future editions of the rules. Your comments on grammar and content are welcome:

A great thing about Flash Point: Fire Rescue is the flexibility of the rules. This is your game and you should feel free to change any of the rules, or create new rules of your own. It’s a great way to get creative. If you come up with something that is really great we’d love to hear about it and maybe even work with you to include it in future expansions to the game.

Here are a couple of rule changes that you can try out to jumpstart your creativity:

A Lone Engine Company– Your volunteer firefighter crew has to respond quickly with the limited resources on hand .
• Initial Set-up: Randomly select Specialist cards.
• The Crew Change action is not available for the entire game.

Unmarked Hazards – You never know what lies beneath the ? mark.
• Initial Set-up: Start the game with no Hazmat markers on the board.
• False Alarms: When a False Alarm is revealed, place a Hazmat marker in its space. If the False Alarm was revealed during the Advance Fire phase, resolve an Explosion in the space.

Murphy Strikes – A broken water main hampers structural firefighting
• The Deck Gun action is not available for the entire game.

If you are new to the world of “hobby games”, then you might not know about expansions. Expansions are add-ons for a game, and there are sure to be several for Flash Point: Fire Rescue. So if you’ve enjoyed this game and want to have more buildings and specialists then be sure to ask your local game store or visit www.IndieBoardsAndCards.com to see new ways to enjoy the game.

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jason roberts
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Re: Feedback Requested - Changing the Rules
Good ideas Travis.Sometimes we get stuck following the rules + don't say " Hey what if" Share your imagination + good things will follow. TY for an original + challenging game.Now about those damn walls .....!
laugh
 
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Chris Janiec
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Re: Feedback Requested - Changing the Rules
I'd like to see future boards differentiate between outside wall sections with windows and without. Those with windows would require only a single breaching action to provide passage, while those without would require three vice two (representing the added strength of the wall and added effort required to make a passable opening when compared to an interior wall).

Coincidentally, we practiced breaching walls in our department's training last night.

One change I've actually tried is to require expenditure of an AP to open a door on an exterior wall the first time before any firefighters can use that door to enter/exit the structure. These days, a lot of people keep their outside doors locked much of the time, especially at night (when most home fires occur). This is a nice little balancing mechanic with five or six players.
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Travis Worthington
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Re: Feedback Requested - Changing the Rules
Actually I am looking for feedback on this as part of the rule book, though comments on items you'd be looking for in the game are welcome.
 
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Lutz Pietschker
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Re: Feedback Requested - Changing the Rules
Chris Janiec wrote:
I'd like to see future boards differentiate between outside wall sections with windows and without....

Working on it...
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Lutz Pietschker
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Re: Feedback Requested - Changing the Rules
I think it is a good idea to include such optional rules & variants in the basic rule book.
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Nasella
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Deck gun
This rule represents a potentially more realistic deck gun modification:

How you use the deck gun is based on how many damage cubes have been used up.

When the house has received 75% damage(represented by the cubes), all rules stay the same. This represents that the roof is destroyed, allowing for the deck gunner to access the interior of the house.

When the house has not reached the above threshold, the deck gun can only be used on exterior walls(fire can only be extinguished in squares containing exterior walls). Additionally, you aim for one part of the wall and can only extinguish the two adjacent wall spaces(all rules stay the same for extinguishing fires).

-Once you pass the threshold, it does not matter if a damage cube has been re-gained.
-Fire truck has to be on the side of the building that has a square you are trying to extinguish
-Fire truck cannot be moved to a new spot and be used to extinguish a fire on the same turn.

Problems with this are noticing when you have passed the threshold.

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Chris Janiec
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Quote:
Actually I am looking for feedback on this as part of the rule book


Quote:
Unmarked Hazards – You never know what lies beneath the ? mark.
• Initial Set-up: Start the game with no Hazmat markers on the board.
• False Alarms: When a False Alarm is revealed, place a Hazmat marker in its space. If the False Alarm was revealed during the Advance Fire phase, resolve an Explosion in the space.

This provides better uncertainty regarding the presence of hazardous materials. But there are always five False Alarms in play (using the rules as written), while the number of HazMats varies with the level of difficulty. Two possible solutions require changing the second bullet to read either:

"False Alarms: When a False Alarm is revealed, place a Hazmat marker in its space if the number of HazMat markers placed so far (even if removed) is less than the number prescribed per the Difficulty Level."

or, "False Alarms: When a False Alarm is revealed, roll the red, 6-sided die. If the result is less than or equal to the number of HazMats specified by the Difficulty Level (e.g., 4 or less at Veteran level), place a Hazmat marker in its space."

In either case, the old second sentence of the second bullet ("If the False Alarm was revealed during the Advance Fire phase, resolve an Explosion in the space.") becomes its own, third bullet.

A problem arises when using the Imaging Technician, since IR devices would not reveal the presence of hazmat. As a compromise, and to improve the realism of the IT role in general, consider adding a fourth bullet:

"The special ability of the Imaging Technician does not apply to a POI with a wall between him and the POI, even if it is Destroyed."

In a game like this, we probably don't want to get into detailed line-of-sight rules. About the only concession might be, "The IT can reveal a POI in the space immediately beyond and adjacent to an open or destroyed door."

Quote:
Murphy Strikes – A broken water main hampers structural firefighting
• The Deck Gun action is not available for the entire game.

This doesn't just result from Murphy, but is generally true in rural areas. In our district, for example, there are only five hydrants, all in what is euphemistically referred to as "downtown." But the result is the same: if no working hydrant or other water supply such as a lake is available, we'd never use a deck gun, as it would empty the engine in less than a minute
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Carlos Alves
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This game looks very interesting to have since i have pandemic. But i moved back because everything feels pandemic in diferent theme and gameplay, Yet the game only has 2 maps and the urbans expansions more 2 maps for more challenging.


I would like to see a true expansion for this game to change my mind, this's request for designers for improving:

Map Expansions:
- 1 House with a 3 floors (Basement, ground, 1 floor) connect by stairs. This will need the 2 original dice plus a new 1d3 dice for floor randomizer ( 1d8 x 1d6 x 1d3 )
- A Building with the last 3 Floors Where the stairs and the elevators are connected. No Firetruck or ambulance is allowed. This expansion will require the new rules additions below.( 1d8 x 1d6 x 1d3 )
- 1 Big map for a mansion (1d10 x 1d8 )

PS: The maps with more floors will require the additions fire placement on each turn rather than 1.

I would like to see some new additions on this game as well:
- Locked Doors by key or security systems (Can only opened by chopping action - 2 Damage to Break)
- Stairs (2 Damage to closed the connection floors)
- Elevators
- Medikits for Firefighters
- Dark Rooms (Makes the Playes use theirs new Light Token)
- New Item Markers (Medikits, Lights, Free Extintors, etc...)



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Tim Stellmach
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BGFreakDag2PT wrote:
- Locked Doors by key or security systems (Can only opened by chopping action - 2 Damage to Break)

The game already has a boundary that can only be opened by 2 damage. It's called a wall. It's not clear to me how what you're proposing is any different from a wall with different artwork on it (which is basically what the office doors in the High Rise board are, except that they're light walls).

Quote:
- Elevators

You really might want to check out the High Rise board when you get a chance.
 
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Tim Stellmach
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T Worthington wrote:
Murphy Strikes – A broken water main hampers structural firefighting
• The Deck Gun action is not available for the entire game.

I don't see this as a particularly meaningful variant. If you don't start with a Driver/Operator, nobody's going to use the Deck Gun all game anyway, unless you get a really bad situation in a particular quadrant. Basically, I've already played this game; I don't need a variant for a situation that's I've already played.
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Tim Stellmach
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T Worthington wrote:
A Lone Engine Company– Your volunteer firefighter crew has to respond quickly with the limited resources on hand .
• Initial Set-up: Randomly select Specialist cards.
• The Crew Change action is not available for the entire game.

I'm not sure the game is winnable with the Paramedic / Rescue Specialist / Structural Engineer team. But the basic concept of the variant is very worthwhile...

Possibly it's nothing. There are low-probability unwinnable setups in Forbidden Island, too, and I don't think they're worth fixing.

(If I were to do something about it, I'd probably allow one crew change action per game if there were three or fewer firefighters.)
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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timstellmach wrote:
I'm not sure the game is winnable with the Paramedic / Rescue Specialist / Structural Engineer team. But the basic concept of the variant is very worthwhile...

This is the biggest challenge I've had so far with the game. I've played a couple of different groups now and each group seems to have their preferred strategy which they think will ultimately lose if you deviate away from. After one or two similar plays, they figure they've got the game completely figured out and seem unwilling to try different things. I can't really find away around this without upseting folks except to play as much as I can with lots of different people.

Whether or not the game can be solved with a single unbeatable strategy, I don't find it fun to always try using the same pre-determined firefighting plan (however realistic that might be). I think it might have something to do with the unforgiving nature of structural damage in this game that leads players to not want to experiment, especially mid-game.
 
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Tim Stellmach
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lordrahvin wrote:
timstellmach wrote:
I'm not sure the game is winnable with the Paramedic / Rescue Specialist / Structural Engineer team. But the basic concept of the variant is very worthwhile...

This is the biggest challenge I've had so far with the game. I've played a couple of different groups now and each group seems to have their preferred strategy which they think will ultimately lose if you deviate away from.

That's a surprising amount of group think, given the flexibility I see in the game. Basically, your building will explode quickly if you don't fight fires, and you'll never win if you don't save victims, and outside of that you've got a lot of options in your approach. And several specialties are good for both tasks.

Definitely sounds like a good variant for your groups.
 
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Lutz Pietschker
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BGFreakDag2PT wrote:
Map Expansions:
- 1 House with a 3 floors

Working on it...
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Lutz Pietschker
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BGFreakDag2PT wrote:
- Dark Rooms ... so they use their light...
- New Item Markers

All rooms are effectively dark, because you have to imagine them smoke-filled (not just where smoke markers are, but everywhere). Also, the reasoning "I need that condition because otherwise they would not use their new gear" sounds a bit circular to me.

Gear is effectively represented in the roles, and I think that is a very good compromise between fiddlyness and variance. I consider the addition of "big" gear (apparatus) most promising. I work on more detailed rules for the aerial ladder, for example (and portable ladders as well, to be precise). Maybe exhauster fans or water supply systems would also have some merit if they can be made to fit the time scale. My attempts to include water supply all turned out just slightly fiddly but, worse, made the game much more difficult to win. And I mean much more. It was in a fit of such despair that I added the unappetizing Lemuel Gulliver thread. blush
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James Cartwright
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How about these variants -


Reinforced walls - all walls cost 3AP to chop through instead of 2AP (the specialist ability would increase from 1AP to 2AP for this variant)

Weak floors - The floors can now be damaged. When there is an explosion, place a damage marker on the floor, signifying a hole the firefighters have to move around. (I understand that this would use the damage markers up quicker though. Maybe could have a black square/circle marker to indicate a hole in the floor, which could still be fixed/removed by the structual engineer)
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Nasella
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This might add a lot of book keeping, but instead of the house falling down at a certain point, it could be rooms that are destroyed once they reach a certain amount of damage. This would create a variable board each time you play. Once a certain amount of rooms are destroyed, then the house falls in.
 
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Lutz Pietschker
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clodius wrote:
...it could be rooms that are destroyed once they reach a certain amount of damage...

This does not need a lot of bookkeeping if the room stands out somehow. See the tent in the Oktoberfest scenario.
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Nasella
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Nice, I actually had already seen that, maybe that was how I got the idea.

more thoughts on your idea:
When a room is destroyed, you cannot access the area, unless the structural engineer can remove cubes to allow movement through the room. This would make the SE very powerful.
You could play either have all victims and firefighters are lost inside the room, or they have x-many turns to get out before they are lost.
(Maybe then, all players need to have the ability to remove a damage cube, but it takes alot of AP(maybe multiple turns?)).

This will create a highly variable path to victory each game as the board will potentially vary each play.
 
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Paul S
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DARK IN HERE, ISN'T IT?
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Travis,

I like your variants exactly as written, in the 1st post, above. I think they are clear, and I don't think they need grammar corrections. I am of course ignoring the interesting comments since, but hope that this is useful as a reply to "contents and grammar"!

 
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T Worthington wrote:
I would like to include this in future editions of the rules. Your comments on grammar and content are welcome:

A great thing about Flash Point: Fire Rescue is the flexibility of the rules. This is your game and you should feel free to change any of the rules, or create new rules of your own. It’s a great way to get creative. If you come up with something that is really great we’d love to hear about it and maybe even work with you to include it in future expansions to the game.


This is something I dislike about some games. You are the game designer, YOU need to set the ground rules. We should not be tinkering with your carefully crafted and playtested mechanics.

That said, I think it is better worded: [Intro fluff] feel free to create new scenarios that alter the rules in some way; limit resources, speed up the advance of fire, make certain types of walls more resilient or weaker, or create new specialists. [...] Test your ideas and share them.
 
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Jeremy George
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timstellmach wrote:
BGFreakDag2PT wrote:
- Locked Doors by key or security systems (Can only opened by chopping action - 2 Damage to Break)

The game already has a boundary that can only be opened by 2 damage. It's called a wall. It's not clear to me how what you're proposing is any different from a wall with different artwork on it...


I would love to see a door token with a lock symbol on the back so that I could mix it in with the other door tokens randomly. If you try to open a door that is locked it takes an additional action to break it down. Would add a risk element to trying a door the first time.
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Deb Wentworth
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While not a change to rules, I'd like to see enough detail printed on the role cards so new players don't have to refer to the rulebook to read the fine print about their special actions.
 
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Gordon Stewart
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Maybe the BACK of the rules should always
have a concise TURN ORDER SUMMARY including
the ADVANCED in one color;
multi-floor in another....

(Include number of rolls, etc.)
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