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BattleCON: War of Indines» Forums » General

Subject: Online Play? rss

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Clinton Paris
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So I'm totally in to this game right now, but my main gaming partner (my son--age 9) is getting burned out from me asking for "just one more game."

I know there is a demo Vassal module, but are there any plans to do anything else with online play? This is the kind of game that could have a really great online tournament scene.

**crossing fingers**

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Brad Talton
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There's an iPad version currently in development
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Clinton Paris
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That's great news for all us non-iPad folks!



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Brad Talton
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I'd like to make a web-portal kind of play area too, but that's not really my specialty. The position is available for those who want to volunteer though.
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Clinton Paris
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Would there be any objections about a more robust version on Vassal?

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Brad Talton
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We have a dev version that we used to play-balance the game and which has all 18 characters, but I'm not certain I want to release it to the public at this time. I do eventually want to do something mainstream and universally accessible, but it could take a while to get that finished. I just worry that Vassal is too difficult to setup and install for most people, and would rather have the game on a self-contained platform instead of as an add on to Vassal.

I don't know--I haven't given much thought to releasing it like that. Does anyone want to chime in with an opinion on it?
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Nate K
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I don't get to play this game nearly as much as I'd like. It would be nice to have a good, robust online version. (An iPad version will be very popular, I think, but it doesn't exactly help me. )
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Clinton Paris
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I understand that there are other "virtual tabletop" packages out there that specialize in card games and CCG's, so I might have to do some research and see what other non-Vassal options there are.

Regardless, I'd love any means of playing the game with more fellow enthusiasts!

meeple

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Noah Bogart
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The fellows over at Fantasy Strike used Unity3D for their implementations of Yomi and Puzzle Strike. It works really well, I think, and is browser-based, which I'd love for BattleCon.

Just a thought, though.
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Echo W
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NoahTheDuke wrote:
The fellows over at Fantasy Strike used Unity3D for their implementations of Yomi and Puzzle Strike. It works really well, I think, and is browser-based, which I'd love for BattleCon.

Just a thought, though.


+1

Anything browser-based would be awesome, as I am Apple i-less and Droid-less.
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Clinton Paris
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NoahTheDuke wrote:
The fellows over at Fantasy Strike used Unity3D for their implementations of Yomi and Puzzle Strike. It works really well, I think, and is browser-based, which I'd love for BattleCon.

Just a thought, though.

Sadly, there is no Linux version of the browser plugin for this, so its not as universal as it may imply. Still, I agree that something universal would be great for everyone!

meeple

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Brad Talton
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It would be hard to make something like Yomi that enforces all the game rules and has AI, but a browser-based game table like Vassal that uses AJAX to synchronize two live players would be pretty easy to put together. What about that?
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Noah Bogart
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Kyokai wrote:
It would be hard to make something like Yomi that enforces all the game rules and has AI, but a browser-based game table like Vassal that uses AJAX to synchronize two live players would be pretty easy to put together. What about that?

That might work!

What do you see being hard about a Yomi-like set-up, if you don't mind me asking? It sounds like you have specific problems in mind.
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Brad Talton
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BattleCON's turn structure is pretty complex. Unlike Yomi where you set a card and the turn plays itself out, there are a lot of choices to make along the way for each specific card (do you want to move 1, 2, or 3 spaces (Dash)? Do you want to sacrifices 0, 1, 2, or 3 life (Necrotizing)? Do you want to spend extra tokens after revealing (Geomantic)? etc).

Not to mention situations where you have two triggers and you need to decide which one to activate first. For humans, this is pretty easy, but for a programmer, it's a lot of heavy lifting to make sure the rules enforce themselves.
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Clinton Paris
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Heck, I'd be happy to play something that didn't enforce the rules, just to get some online battles going. Obviously, something that enforces the rules is the ultimate destination, but some online play is better than no online play.

meeple

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Moosey
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I'm content with the physical version.

I did androminion and race for the galaxy vs. ai, and honestly, after I did, I started playing them less in person. I love that I can play vs the ai. Get lost of matches in quickly. But it does take away a little of the magic for me. I wouldn't complain one bit if this were available electronically. Just wanted to give some perspective that the physical game and any possible future expansions is where it's at. It's where I'd most like to see your efforts directed. The rest is just icing on the cake (of course I'm saying this not knowing if I'll like the game or not... but I'm dying to get my copy in and try it out).
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One Armed Bandit
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Kyokai wrote:
It would be hard to make something like Yomi that enforces all the game rules and has AI, but a browser-based game table like Vassal that uses AJAX to synchronize two live players would be pretty easy to put together. What about that?


I would absolutely LOVE that.

It doesn't need to be super fancy. I'd prefer fast and clean over slow and pretty (the online Yomi was very pretty... and very laggy on my computer)

If you want a suggestion on style?
http://dominion.isotropic.org/

Make it like that
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Joachim Pehl
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Kyokai wrote:
BattleCON's turn structure is pretty complex. Unlike Yomi where you set a card and the turn plays itself out, there are a lot of choices to make along the way for each specific card (do you want to move 1, 2, or 3 spaces (Dash)? Do you want to sacrifices 0, 1, 2, or 3 life (Necrotizing)? Do you want to spend extra tokens after revealing (Geomantic)? etc).

Not to mention situations where you have two triggers and you need to decide which one to activate first. For humans, this is pretty easy, but for a programmer, it's a lot of heavy lifting to make sure the rules enforce themselves.


This makes it more complicated to make a good AI, but even if those cases are considered, BC still has pretty simple rules and should be easy to implement as, for example, a Java program.
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Noah Bogart
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Kyokai wrote:
BattleCON's turn structure is pretty complex. Unlike Yomi where you set a card and the turn plays itself out, there are a lot of choices to make along the way for each specific card (do you want to move 1, 2, or 3 spaces (Dash)? Do you want to sacrifices 0, 1, 2, or 3 life (Necrotizing)? Do you want to spend extra tokens after revealing (Geomantic)? etc).

Not to mention situations where you have two triggers and you need to decide which one to activate first. For humans, this is pretty easy, but for a programmer, it's a lot of heavy lifting to make sure the rules enforce themselves.

Wait, so you're not going to make a rules-enforced online version?

I disagree entirely with the idea that it'd be hard to program the rules in. I reread them today, and they're surprisingly straight-forward. Simultaneous actions are easy (just wait until both players have pressed the "pass" button), number of tokens used is easy (simple as buttons for each, or make them items that are clicked on), number of spaces is easy (highlight, like chess, where the character must move), etc. Rules such as "blah happens/applies next turn" are easy, because with a robust TurnFunction, checking hardcoded character-specific booleans is easy-peasy; effects from Anteing or tokens or Paradigms are easy, because they're simple boolean modifiers.

The only limiting factor is an ability to fully define the possibilities. In the rulebook, Magic: The Gathering has the turn structure laid out in absolute detail, to the point where converting it to a program requires little to no translation.

(Actually, even without the online version, having a precise definition of the game would be really cool. I might have to work on that and see what I can come up with. :-P)
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Leo tou_johnny
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Hi all, nice looking game. I'm new as you see in bgg and i just instal vassal to try the battlecon demo. A penny for my thought; at boardgamearena would be great. GM me for playing in vassal!
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Jessey
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Kyokai wrote:
BattleCON's turn structure is pretty complex. Unlike Yomi where you set a card and the turn plays itself out, there are a lot of choices to make along the way for each specific card (do you want to move 1, 2, or 3 spaces (Dash)? Do you want to sacrifices 0, 1, 2, or 3 life (Necrotizing)? Do you want to spend extra tokens after revealing (Geomantic)? etc).

Not to mention situations where you have two triggers and you need to decide which one to activate first. For humans, this is pretty easy, but for a programmer, it's a lot of heavy lifting to make sure the rules enforce themselves.


Speaking as someone who has minimal programming experience, but not zero, it appears complicated but having read the game rules the steps are pretty straightforward and the way you express the process of a beat in the rulebook is a straightforward translation into a game system (via Phases). The smaller details are then contained in their own phase and are card/character dependent. Which is not a surprise given any asymmetric game.

While I agree that Yomi is simpler as far as programming goes, I think that BC could be done in a robust and rules-enforced way.

Also, a big recommendation, don't use Unity - it's clunky and cumbersome and uses a lot of processor power to run that damned Fantasy Strike client that crashes on start up 50% of the time (other things might contribute but I know Unity ain't helping). Furthermore, a Java based client would be accessible on say, an Andriod or iPhone via a browser (Flash isn't natively supported by a lot of these handheld devices).

Food for thought.
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Joachim Pehl
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Candi wrote:

Speaking as someone who has minimal programming experience, but not zero, it appears complicated but having read the game rules the steps are pretty straightforward and the way you express the process of a beat in the rulebook is a straightforward translation into a game system (via Phases). The smaller details are then contained in their own phase and are card/character dependent. Which is not a surprise given any asymmetric game.


you are right there. Small details or exceptions are these things which takes a lot of time. But, after a first glance, most of BCon's exceptions could be expressed in ingle terms like adjusting the vlaues. The most time consuming task would be to make a clear description of the abilities. Since BCon is pretty easy it would be a crime to not implement a way for a user to use his own characters. Too bad, If Battlecon had appeared two years ago, where I was less busy,. I would probaly have tried my luck on it to program a Java client.
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Ben Green
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Would you reconsider releasing the dev version on Vassal now that Devastation is out? The Vassal mod is the reason why Devastation is at the top of my wishlist.
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Henning D.
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Quote:
(...) Furthermore, a Java based client would be accessible on say, an Andriod or iPhone via a browser (Flash isn't natively supported by a lot of these handheld devices). (...)


As far as I know Java is not supported on iPhone via browser. Rather than Java a UI implementation should be based on Javascript, I guess.

I suggest an implementation @yucata.de:
Item for Geeklist "Proposed yucata.de games"
 
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