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Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization» Forums » Variants

Subject: Remedy for Warlords who get resigned on rss

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Tristan Brightman
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I like the resigning rule, but there is a specific situation where it can really suck.

Alice and Bob and Charlie have low-medium military. Derrick has super high military, but is a bit behind in culture.

Derrick can war on culture any one player - it doesn't matter which, he is beating them all - and take enough to win the game. Except that the player he wars on has lost for sure, and will just resign, leaving him in third even though he could have beaten anyone.

This is fairly uncommon, but still annoying. I had an idea about a solution to this situation.

Shifting wars:

If a player resigns to a war you have declared, you may shift it to any other player with lower military than that player. The war resolves at the start of your turn as normal.
 
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Grant
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supertris wrote:
I like the resigning rule, but there is a specific situation where it can really suck.

Alice and Bob and Charlie have low-medium military. Derrick has super high military, but is a bit behind in culture.

Derrick can war on culture any one player - it doesn't matter which, he is beating them all - and take enough to win the game. Except that the player he wars on has lost for sure, and will just resign, leaving him in third even though he could have beaten anyone.

This is fairly uncommon, but still annoying. I had an idea about a solution to this situation.

Shifting wars:

If a player resigns to a war you have declared, you may shift it to any other player with lower military than that player. The war resolves at the start of your turn as normal.

Interesting idea. Only works though if the player you shift it to hasn't taken their turn yet.
 
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Daniel Corban
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I suspect this is only an issue online, where people will be much more hasty to resign than in a face-to-face game. The pseudo-anonymity of the internet coupled with the sporadic play session and ability to instantly join another game (or already be in several other games) would seem to make players much more quick to hit the resign button.

Face-to-face, I have only seen a player resign in the face of a war twice, and the aggressor still went on to win.
 
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Tristan Brightman
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grant5 wrote:
supertris wrote:
I like the resigning rule, but there is a specific situation where it can really suck.

Alice and Bob and Charlie have low-medium military. Derrick has super high military, but is a bit behind in culture.

Derrick can war on culture any one player - it doesn't matter which, he is beating them all - and take enough to win the game. Except that the player he wars on has lost for sure, and will just resign, leaving him in third even though he could have beaten anyone.

This is fairly uncommon, but still annoying. I had an idea about a solution to this situation.

Shifting wars:

If a player resigns to a war you have declared, you may shift it to any other player with lower military than that player. The war resolves at the start of your turn as normal.

Interesting idea. Only works though if the player you shift it to hasn't taken their turn yet.


I wasn't sure what to do about that. It was either "The war resolves after that player has had a turn, at the start of your next turn" or how it is now.

A third option I have thought about is that the point where you resign is changed. You resign at the end of the turn in which someone declares war on you, which means all players still have a turn to react if the war switches to them.

It's more of a change to the rules, but probably better.
 
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Tristan Brightman
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dcorban wrote:
I suspect this is only an issue online, where people will be much more hasty to resign than in a face-to-face game. The pseudo-anonymity of the internet coupled with the sporadic play session and ability to instantly join another game (or already be in several other games) would seem to make players much more quick to hit the resign button.

Face-to-face, I have only seen a player resign in the face of a war twice, and the aggressor still went on to win.


Well, I come at this from the perspective who thinks that the resigning rule is a really good one which people being beat up on should be strongly considering, so I'd encourage resignations in face to face games.

If anything that might persuade my continually under-gunned friend to stop losing the same way :-)
 
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Daniel Corban
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You would only resign if you had absolutely no chance of coming back for a win. I find that unless this is a very late game war, there is always a chance.

I once had a game where I was under attack and on the brink of civil disorder. I had to pull several workers back and was strongly considering resigning. I continued playing, just because I enjoy the game, despite it seeming obvious to everyone at the table that I was doomed to lose. I ended up winning.
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Timothy Pride
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[RANT]

Just got resigned even though it's mid of age II here, with the stupid reason "because you took Napoleon".

I put 4 stars in my game, with title "HARDCORE" and clearly everything is not set in stone (he had better culture engine). Then, it just end like that. I'm really pissed.

yukyukyukshakeshakeshake

[/RANT]
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Nacho Facello
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Darkmot wrote:
[RANT]

Just got resigned even though it's mid of age II here, with the stupid reason "because you took Napoleon".

I put 4 stars in my game, with title "HARDCORE" and clearly everything is not set in stone (he had better culture engine). Then, it just end like that. I'm really pissed.

yukyukyukshakeshakeshake

[/RANT]


Well, you won. I don't see it as wrong. Although I find the other guy's attitude funny. "No, no, I didn't lose, I just refused to play against Napoleon". Yeah, right. He plays a low-strength high-culture game (at least that's what it looks like at first sight) and as soon as you go high strength he says he refuses to play against that style.

The attitude is annoying, yes, but he lost, you won.
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Timothy Pride
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nachof wrote:
Darkmot wrote:
[RANT]

Just got resigned even though it's mid of age II here, with the stupid reason "because you took Napoleon".

I put 4 stars in my game, with title "HARDCORE" and clearly everything is not set in stone (he had better culture engine). Then, it just end like that. I'm really pissed.

yukyukyukshakeshakeshake

[/RANT]


Well, you won. I don't see it as wrong. Although I find the other guy's attitude funny. "No, no, I didn't lose, I just refused to play against Napoleon". Yeah, right. He plays a low-strength high-culture game (at least that's what it looks like at first sight) and as soon as you go high strength he says he refuses to play against that style.

The attitude is annoying, yes, but he lost, you won.


Well, yeah, it's not just about winning or losing, but the journey there. It's like reading LOTR in the middle of book 2 then being told "Okay, you're not allowed to read anymore, just so you know, Sauron lose."

That's crap.

It's a free game that takes long time to completion. There's no ranking system for it, no reward or no punishment. If this was tournament I wouldn't be pissed of this much. I enjoy formulate strategy and seeing it bears fruit. I want to test myself against opponents with high skill. Even if I was losing, it's common courtesy to play until the end (especially in this game, there's a lot of opportunity to turn the tide). And this sissy has just wasted my time for about 2 weeks.
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Tristan Brightman
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Darkmot wrote:
[RANT]

Just got resigned even though it's mid of age II here, with the stupid reason "because you took Napoleon".

I put 4 stars in my game, with title "HARDCORE" and clearly everything is not set in stone (he had better culture engine). Then, it just end like that. I'm really pissed.

yukyukyukshakeshakeshake

[/RANT]


I think this is a better fit for my "I wish people would use the star ratings to work out what games to play in damnit!" thread... :-)

I don't think resigning here sucks - he admits he is beaten (and I think he is - he has 1 science production at turn 12, only 11 more culture and 16 less military than you... I'd happily resign (without the snarky "just can't deal with more boring Napoleon" comment) if I was losing a 2 player so badly I couldn't see a way back. The thing that sucks is joining a game that specifically says "4 stars, Hardcore" and not being "4 stars, Hardcore". If you hadn't taken Nap you'd still be 8 military ahead of him and it doesn't look like you've really hurt him yet.

 
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Tristan Brightman
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Darkmot wrote:
nachof wrote:
Darkmot wrote:
[RANT]

Just got resigned even though it's mid of age II here, with the stupid reason "because you took Napoleon".

I put 4 stars in my game, with title "HARDCORE" and clearly everything is not set in stone (he had better culture engine). Then, it just end like that. I'm really pissed.

yukyukyukshakeshakeshake

[/RANT]


Well, you won. I don't see it as wrong. Although I find the other guy's attitude funny. "No, no, I didn't lose, I just refused to play against Napoleon". Yeah, right. He plays a low-strength high-culture game (at least that's what it looks like at first sight) and as soon as you go high strength he says he refuses to play against that style.

The attitude is annoying, yes, but he lost, you won.


Well, yeah, it's not just about winning or losing, but the journey there. It's like reading LOTR in the middle of book 2 then being told "Okay, you're not allowed to read anymore, just so you know, Sauron lose."

That's crap.

It's a free game that takes long time to completion. There's no ranking system for it, no reward or no punishment. If this was tournament I wouldn't be pissed of this much. I enjoy formulate strategy and seeing it bears fruit. I want to test myself against opponents with high skill. Even if I was losing, it's common courtesy to play until the end (especially in this game, there's a lot of opportunity to turn the tide). And this sissy has just wasted my time for about 2 weeks.


There could be a punishment, if in a game he has lost he's forced to play out each turn (and play to the best of his abilities, so you can't accuse him of wimping out) knowing he's just a punching bag.

He wasted your time by joining a game that asked for a really high skill opponent, but resigning is fine here.

You know exactly how your strategy bore fruit. You won. If you are saying "I enjoy seeing my military advantage reduce him to having 2 guys, no culture, and no yellow tokens left, while I spend turn after turn pounding on him because it's funny" well, I'm not in agreement with you that he is obligated to stick around and suffer that.

I agree that the situation is rubbish, but I think it's rubbish because he joined a game asking for extremely good opposition, when he isn't. It's the fact of how he lost, not the fact that he acknowledged it, that should be the focus of your ire.
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Timothy Pride
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supertris wrote:

You know exactly how your strategy bore fruit. You won. If you are saying "I enjoy seeing my military advantage reduce him to having 2 guys, no culture, and no yellow tokens left, while I spend turn after turn pounding on him because it's funny" well, I'm not in agreement with you that he is obligated to stick around and suffer that.


I don't know if my strategy will bear fruit. Like my reply said there, I've been in situation of lost even though I picked Napoleon and had huge military difference, just because I didn't draw the cards. I've seen people won eventhough he had been a target by War over Culture. So when I picked Napoleon this time, it's still not clear who'll won. He would still had at least 2 turns to prepare, since the war hasn't been declared yet. Even if he lose the War, there's still a chance that he can manage his culture engine to be even faster, and catching up the difference.
 
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Nacho Facello
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Darkmot wrote:
supertris wrote:

You know exactly how your strategy bore fruit. You won. If you are saying "I enjoy seeing my military advantage reduce him to having 2 guys, no culture, and no yellow tokens left, while I spend turn after turn pounding on him because it's funny" well, I'm not in agreement with you that he is obligated to stick around and suffer that.


I don't know if my strategy will bear fruit. Like my reply said there, I've been in situation of lost even though I picked Napoleon and had huge military difference, just because I didn't draw the cards. I've seen people won eventhough he had been a target by War over Culture. So when I picked Napoleon this time, it's still not clear who'll won. He would still had at least 2 turns to prepare, since the war hasn't been declared yet. Even if he lose the War, there's still a chance that he can manage his culture engine to be even faster, and catching up the difference.


Maybe it's because of all the years playing go, but I think that if you lost it's better to resign and play another game (or, if you were beaten really badly, resign and say "please explain what I did wrong").
 
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Timothy Pride
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Oh well... maybe I was just having a bad day. I don't usually get riled up by this kind of things. I'm not a sadistic person, wanting to torture my opponents to oblivion with my military. If I don't see any chance to win, I'd agree resign is good. Thing was, in my game, I still see some chance to win. The fact that he didn't seem to consider it and just end the game abruptly seems... rude, to me. He could always asked me first before resigning, but no, just bye2, it's your fault picking up that "broken" card. Sigh...

Thanks for the response guys. I just wanted to vent, and sorry for my emotional posts. I didn't expect I would get consolation GG surprise. Thanks to you all who cheer me up.

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Iron James Rackham
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Darkmot wrote:
I enjoy formulate strategy and seeing it bears fruit. I want to test myself against opponents with high skill.

Well, there you go then. Continuing with that game would probably have been a waste of your time.
 
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Faray
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I can see where he is coming from, I want to resign every time someone grabs nappy ever

 
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Bill Herbst
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Warlords who plan to make a big killing in the endgame with a war against a significantly weaker power should think twice before declaring war. I have the unique distinction (shame) of having had to resign in the finals of the WBC TTA tournament. I had never played the game before with four players (all previous rounds of the tournament were three players) and I had only played the game a handful of times before the tournament at all so I guess was a bit out of my depth. I had gotten into a jam where I was trailing significantly in rock and my military unit production had fallen dreadfully far behind towards the end of Age II. I assumed that people were not playing wars on me because they knew I would resign in that circumstance -- if I did not resign I would have been inadvertently kingmaking in favor of those people who were able to declare war on me. One opponent declared a war which would have pushed me from the toilet to the sewer so I resigned -- after speaking to the GM we all agreed that the resignation rule exists to prevent just this sort of beating up the loser. The player to the right of me then said that he had war cards for the past several turns but didn't play them because he knew it would practically force me to resign and make his turn useless. He went on to win that year.
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Jeff Chunko
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This variant would help in the situation where player A is far ahead of B,C, and D in military, but behind them in culture. If he declares war on any one of them they are likely to resign. So he can pick a loser, but not force a winner. (Been there) Sadly, any solution for this dilemma is likely to break another situation. If you allow wars to float, then players are likely to intentionally pick on the weak players hoping to force them out before floating to a stronger competitor.
 
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