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Subject: Can someone please explain how this game play? rss

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Jason Emme
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Is this a cross between Axis and Allies and Risk, or is it completely different?
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Ron
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Completely different.

It's card-driven: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamemechanic/2018/campaign...

But I dare to say that it is better than A&A & Risk together meeple
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Jason Emme
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Ok, I'll give that link a look. Thanks for the quick reply.
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Oliver Paul
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You can check out one of the many video reviews done on it, for example:

http://boardgamegeek.com/video/2326/twilight-struggle/twilig...

There are also a multitude of written reviews which might help.
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Jonathan Kinney
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DakotaDevil wrote:
Is this a cross between Axis and Allies and Risk, or is it completely different?


This has got to be a joke, right? With the amount written on this game it would have taken less time to go to the page than type the silly question. Because, yes, a top rated game is simply going to be a cross between two mediocre ones. shake
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Alex
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Well, all three games have the world map printed on the board.
That is the only thing they have in common.
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Richard
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jonocop wrote:
DakotaDevil wrote:
Is this a cross between Axis and Allies and Risk, or is it completely different?


This has got to be a joke, right? With the amount written on this game it would have taken less time to go to the page than type the silly question. Because, yes, a top rated game is simply going to be a cross between two mediocre ones. shake


It's pretty common for people to look at new items and compare and contrast it with what they are familiar with. Is that really so wrong?
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Travis Wales
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Jason,

Here is a great video review of the mechanics of the game etc. Its lengthy, but after watching it you will essentially be prepared to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFfVqRmDLkI

After watching this video I decided to purchase the game.
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Jack Smith
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DakotaDevil wrote:
Is this a cross between Axis and Allies and Risk, or is it completely different?


In some ways it is yes. Rather than Armies you use Influence to spread over the world and you score points for regions. The way this is done is not the same at all, you use cards to do things, but the result is similar. If you like Axis and Allies or Risk you will probably like TS. I much prefer TS as it is deeper and more subtle than the games you mention.

As said please look at the video reviews. Also, the game is a lot more fun that it may seems at first. If you like the threat of being attacked or trying to survive while taking over the world you will like it.
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Fabrice Dubois
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I bought this game recently (blush) and after reading the rules and watching video reviews, i have two questions about Twilight Struggle:

1/ in the extended example of play in the rules (the first 3 turns of a session), no realignment action is played by the two players. Is this due to the fact that only the beginning of the game is described ? Is this action less powerful and/or less profitable than the others ?

2/ what is the point to play for DEFCON at 2 ? I understand that this is an endgame condition and an automatic loss for the player who triggered a nuclear holocaust, but according to the rules:
- DEFCON = 4 : no coup nor realignment in Europe
- DEFCON = 3 : no coup nor realignment in Europe / Asia
- DEFCON = 2 : no coup nor realignment in Europe / Asia / Middle East

The more the DEFCON is degraded, the fewest opportunities to continue in the escalation. Correct?

If DEFCON = 2, the only way to fulfill one military operations requirement is by tempting coup in a non-battleground country in Africa, South or Central America (otherwise DEFCON would fall to 1). This leaves only the action of influence to take control of a battleground country, right?

I can't figure out the thematic ins and outs of DEFCON. If there is one, what is the thematic justification to play for DEFCON at 2? Incentive to play aggressive to a certain limit and then be more "peaceful" (concept of "Détente")?

Thank you for your help.
 
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I'm new to the game myself so may miss some of the points of DEFCON.

As far as I can see, it can be used to restrict your opponents options and force them to make less than optimal choices. For example, at the beginning of the game, the Soviets can coup anywhere they want straight off the bat. If they go for a battleground country, USA can't coup in Europe thus restircting their options. If the DEFCON degrades to 2 and you still owe Military Ops, you can only coup non-battlegorund states in Africa or one of the Americas forcing you to either take a VP hit for owed Ops, or to use a card for a coup somewhere less imprtant than a battleground country.
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Edward
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DEFCON naturally degrades to 2 because battleground coups are quite valuable.

Once at 2, at the beginning of each turn, it will rise to 3, but the USSR will try to return it to 2 because this will keep the US from a valuable battleground coup.

The US will in turn attempt to play in such a way that at the start of the turn, the USSR is forced to do something other than lower DEFCON to 2, so that the US may coup a battleground.

This DEFCON interplay forms one of the central strategic tensions of the game.
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Jason Emme
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Tredogg wrote:
Jason,

Here is a great video review of the mechanics of the game etc. Its lengthy, but after watching it you will essentially be prepared to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFfVqRmDLkI

After watching this video I decided to purchase the game.

Ok thanks, I'll give that a look.

On a side note: what's wrong with the guy asking if my topic was a serious question? I'm trying to relate this game to something I know; and I know that Risk and Axis & Allies are GREAT games. I don't know that about this game. Just because it's a top ranked game, doesn't necessarily mean that I will like it. That's why they are called opinions.
 
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Jason Emme
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Oh, and this may be off-topic, but how do I earn Geek Gold for this site? I apparently joined this site over five years ago and forgot about it, but it seems to have changed quite a bit since then. So how do I earn this geek gold? Thanks and sorry for the off topic post.
 
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Andrew Rice
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how do I earn Geek Gold for this site?


http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/GeekGold#
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Nate C.
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fdubois wrote:

1/ in the extended example of play in the rules (the first 3 turns of a session), no realignment action is played by the two players. Is this due to the fact that only the beginning of the game is described ? Is this action less powerful and/or less profitable than the others ?

Typically, it is only profitable to realign when you have +2 to your roll, which takes time to engineer and usually will not happen until players are fighting over regions that are not protected by restrictions imposed by Defcon being at 2 or 3.

fdubois wrote:

I can't figure out the thematic ins and outs of DEFCON. If there is one, what is the thematic justification to play for DEFCON at 2? Incentive to play aggressive to a certain limit and then be more "peaceful" (concept of "Détente")?

In thematic terms, it is reflecting the idea that both super powers during the Cold War knew that the other side had nuclear weapons.

As a result each side would push as far as they thought they could, without crossing the line that would threaten an actual outbreak of nuclear war.
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Edward
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Nathan404 wrote:
fdubois wrote:

1/ in the extended example of play in the rules (the first 3 turns of a session), no realignment action is played by the two players. Is this due to the fact that only the beginning of the game is described ? Is this action less powerful and/or less profitable than the others ?

Typically, it is only profitable to realign when you have +2 to your roll, which takes time to engineer and usually will not happen until players are fighting over regions that are not protected by restrictions imposed by Defcon being at 2 or 3.

That's too conservative. Remember that you have multiple rolls; if you only roll at +2 you're going to be wasting most of your Ops if you use a 2 or 3 Ops card.

My rules of thumb for realignments:

-2: Only if I need to realign somewhere (e.g., my first realign was too sucessful) and I have no influence in the country
-1: Only if it kicks him out of a critical region (e.g., in response to De-Stalinization, where he placed only 1 influence into South America)
0: If he is unable to play back into the country and either the country is very important (e.g., being scored this turn), or I have no influence there
+1: If he is unable to play back into the country
+2: If I have sufficient influence in the country to gain control after eliminating his influence
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Nate C.
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theory wrote:
That's too conservative. Remember that you have multiple rolls; if you only roll at +2 you're going to be wasting most of your Ops if you use a 2 or 3 Ops card.

My rules of thumb for realignments:

-2: Only if I need to realign somewhere (e.g., my first realign was too sucessful) and I have no influence in the country
-1: Only if it kicks him out of a critical region (e.g., in response to De-Stalinization, where he placed only 1 influence into South America)
0: If he is unable to play back into the country and either the country is very important (e.g., being scored this turn), or I have no influence there
+1: If he is unable to play back into the country
+2: If I have sufficient influence in the country to gain control after eliminating his influence

Good to know, I'm still learning a bit myself.

Questions for each:
-2: Makes total sense to me

-1: Do you always do this post De-Stalinization? Decolonization for Africa?

0: Are you saying that this is something you will do every time (or nearly every time) if you know the scoring is coming? +0 seems like a bad bet in general... I guess it works out if you have multiple rolls and nothing to lose?

+1: Makes sense, favorable roll and kicks him out of an area, if not out of the region

+2: Will you still do this if you don't stand to gain control? It seems like a no brainer to realign at +2 in general - correct me if I'm wrong.

Your posts are always super helpful, and I really dig the TS Strategy blog - its been a great resource as I learn the ropes.
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Riku Riekkinen
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Realigns are the best way to use the OPs, if you have at least +1 and the enemy has at least 2IPs in.

My realign trigger is somewhat simpler than others :

Less than 0: Don't do it except with odd extra OP from other realigns

0: Do it ocassionally to a BG enemy can't get back into, if you can't take BGs otherwise

More than 0: Go nuts!
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I always seem to prefer realligning as the US, rather then as the USSR, although I use it as both.

The good thing about realligning is first of all that it doesn't lower the DEFCON (so can be freely used in the america and Africa at DEFCON2).
with a + modifier you can really wreck a region for you opponent.
That's why it's important to have certain BG's, but for reallignment perhaps even more important are some None BG's. (see my strategy article of important none-BG's ).

As the US this is specifically important as sometime you don't have the option to coup into a region. When the USSR is only playing BG's (which they tend to do from time to time, to prevent you a cheap coup for MO), you can respond by claiming countries that are adjecent to these BG's and then reallign the h#ll out of them.

Cheers, Haring

Oh ps. Classic example. US uses Fidel for the event first (3ussr in Cuba) and then uses the 2ops for 2 +0 reallignment rolls. If you're a bit lucky you just removed Fidel from power in the same round as he came into it.
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I introduced a new player to TS the other day. Playing the Soviets, he used realignments to devesatating effect. First he realigned me out of the Americas to achieve the strongest board position I've ever seen the Soviets enjoy in those regions (all unchallenged by US presence remember). And then he realigned me out of South Africa (where I'd just taken control to establish a BG presence), which was followed up by Africa scoring to give him 5VP (unchallenged Domination with a mere 1 BG and 1 non-BG). I eventually lost to an instant Soviet win in turn 7. I've always liked timely realignments, but I'm going to be more attentive to their possibilities now than ever after having suffered that blitz! surprise

I was sure my pal would enjoy TS because of its mixture of 'resource management' and cardplay. He did, but he was more than pleased when he was able to set so many new benchmarks for big plays in the history of TS at my table (he also used Indo-Pakistan War to sneak in behind my otherwise impregnable lines in Asia- the single most decisively game-turning war card yet seen).
 
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Edward
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Nathan404 wrote:
theory wrote:
That's too conservative. Remember that you have multiple rolls; if you only roll at +2 you're going to be wasting most of your Ops if you use a 2 or 3 Ops card.

My rules of thumb for realignments:

-2: Only if I need to realign somewhere (e.g., my first realign was too sucessful) and I have no influence in the country
-1: Only if it kicks him out of a critical region (e.g., in response to De-Stalinization, where he placed only 1 influence into South America)
0: If he is unable to play back into the country and either the country is very important (e.g., being scored this turn), or I have no influence there
+1: If he is unable to play back into the country
+2: If I have sufficient influence in the country to gain control after eliminating his influence

Good to know, I'm still learning a bit myself.

Questions for each:
-2: Makes total sense to me

-1: Do you always do this post De-Stalinization? Decolonization for Africa?

0: Are you saying that this is something you will do every time (or nearly every time) if you know the scoring is coming? +0 seems like a bad bet in general... I guess it works out if you have multiple rolls and nothing to lose?

+1: Makes sense, favorable roll and kicks him out of an area, if not out of the region

+2: Will you still do this if you don't stand to gain control? It seems like a no brainer to realign at +2 in general - correct me if I'm wrong.

Your posts are always super helpful, and I really dig the TS Strategy blog - its been a great resource as I learn the ropes.

I think the one thing I leave out of those rules is when realigning, period, is worth it, compared to doing something else with the AR and Ops.

-1: This is a big risk and one I'm only willing to do if it eliminates him from the region, rather than just the specific country. So against a bad USSR player that only De-Stalinizes 1 influence into all of SA, that's when I'll take the risk. Otherwise it's too chancy and requires too many Ops.

0: Common scenario would be Fidel being the USSR's only presence in Central America, and I'm holding CA scoring on Turn 4 or something.

+2: At +2, it's a fantastic realign target, but if I'm not gaining control, it's generally not worth the Action round. For instance, if Angola is 0/4, but I control Botswana, Zaire, and South Africa, but he has 1 influence in South Africa, I'm not going to bother realigning Angola because it's just a waste of time. But if I were 1/4 in Angola, then I would do it. So in that scenario, I would probably play into Angola first, and then realign it, if I really wanted Angola.
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Nate C.
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Thanks everyone for the re-align advice. I think I have a much better handle on at will use it a little more often.

Theory brought up a good point too - since actions are a limited resource, you must decide if it's worth it to use an action to re-align in the first place. In the best/average/worst case scenario, what is gained, and what are your alternatives for that action round?

I think that stopped me from realigning more than anything, is that I would usually rather spend ops for cold hard influence since the beginning/mid game is a race to gather up and reinforce territory.
 
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Jason Emme
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andy.rice@att.net wrote:
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Wow, $1 per geek gold? That's a little ridiculous. By this standard it would cost something like $50 just so I can have an avatar and pic on my profile. I can't believe people are paying for this. I could see a dollar or two, but this is nuts.
 
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That's only 1 of the 20 listed ways of earning geekgold, and is meant purely as a bonus for those who contribute financially to the site.
 
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