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Subject: Is a player still considered [Alien] if he has lost his power? rss

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Jeff Thornsen
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I'm asking this for Wild Flares which have text that directs the player to give the Flare to that Alien if present, otherwise discard it.

I'm also curious about the exact timing of losing your Alien power in the following scenario:

(Note: Wild Filth causes an entire planet to become evacuated, and then gives the Flare card to the Filth player if present, otherwise the Flare is discarded)

A non-Filth player plays Wild Filth, and targets one of Filth's home planets. All the ships on that planet are moved to other Colonies. This causes the Filth player to have less than 3 Home Colonies. Does the Wild Filth flare card still go to Filth, or is it discarded?

So I guess my question is, when you lose your power due to having too few home colonies, are you literally no longer that Alien, or are you still considered to be that Alien, just that you can't use your power? We couldn't find anything in the printed rulebook which helped clarify, other than a statement that the loss of power occurs "immediately".

And if somehow the answer is that you are still considered that Alien, does this mean that a powerless Filth could repeatedly play his Wild Flare and keep giving the card back to himself? It doesn't sound right to me, but I couldn't find anything in the rulebook which explains how this is supposed to work.


And since we're talking about Filth, just want to confirm. If Changeling swaps powers with Filth, the new Filth immediately kicks everyone else off the planets on which he co-exists with other players? Doesn't this make Filth's power essentially unzappable? I mean, you can prevent him from kicking you out for one encounter, but as soon as a new encounter begins, the Filth must use his power again to kick everyone off. It turned out to not be an issue since another player zapped the Changeling and prevented the power swap in the first place, but just wanted to make sure I understand what would happen in the event that another player suddenly became the Filth.
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david landes
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1. "Flares are cards that correspond to the Alien Powers found in the game. If you have a Flare Card that is different from your Alien Power or you have lost the use of your Alien Power, you can use the effect described under "Wild". If you have the Flare Card that corresponds to your Alien Power, you can use the effect described under "Super".
That is from Mayfair rules (I do not have the more recent printing).

2. I believe you are still the alien, just without power. So the Filth player does get the card, but can't use the super. And yes, he could repeatedly play it as the wild player, hilarious though that may be (though again, I do not have the newer version rules to look at).

3. Yes, Filth is pretty unzappable, except as a delaying tactic.

4. Yes, switch of powers due to the Changeling will cause a new round of planet evacuations
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Mi Myma
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dklx3 wrote:
1. "Flares are cards that correspond to the Alien Powers found in the game. If you have a Flare Card that is different from your Alien Power or you have lost the use of your Alien Power, you can use the effect described under "Wild". If you have the Flare Card that corresponds to your Alien Power, you can use the effect described under "Super".
That is from Mayfair rules (I do not have the more recent printing).

Right, but I don't think that's the question he's asking.

Quote:
2. I believe you are still the alien, just without power. So the Filth player does get the card, but can't use the super. And yes, he could repeatedly play it as the wild player, hilarious though that may be (though again, I do not have the newer version rules to look at).

I don't think so. The "discard or give to power" flares are especially powerful; they're intended to be used only once. You could think of the privilege of having the flare passed to you as part of the power, so if you've lost your power, you no longer get to have the flare passed to you. The scenario the OP describes of emptying a planet every encounter shows why. It becomes too ridiculous. Other examples:

Wild Locust - The powerless Locust does almost the same thing. As long as he has 4 ships not in the warp, he destroys a planet every encounter until everyone has lost their power and can't possibly get it back.
Wild Disease - Powerless Disease causes all players to lose a card, and very likely ships as well, *every* encounter.
Wild Chronos - A powerless Chronos becomes more powerful than Clone and Filch combined!
Wild Human - A powerless Human gets an unlimited number of Attack 42's.
Wild Invader - Having lost his power, Invader gets a good portion of it back.
Wild Leviathan - The powerless Leviathan would get two free foreign colonies on his next turn.

Quote:
3. Yes, Filth is pretty unzappable, except as a delaying tactic.

No. You zap the Filth when he is defeated as defense, so you don't have to fumigate his planet and can land immediately.

Quote:
4. Yes, switch of powers due to the Changeling will cause a new round of planet evacuations

Yep. Changeling and Filth in the same game can be very annoying. Or hilarious depending on how you look at it.
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Roberta Yang
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Anything that allows someone to become the Filth later in the game if they were not Filth earlier in the game does that sort of thing. Reincarnator into Filth? Wild Reincarnator into Filth? Precursor Seed into Filth? Pentaform with Filth as the final life stage? It all leads to mass loss of colonies.
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Just a Bill
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salty53 wrote:
Anything that allows someone to become the Filth later in the game if they were not Filth earlier in the game does that sort of thing. Reincarnator into Filth? Wild Reincarnator into Filth? Precursor Seed into Filth? Pentaform with Filth as the final life stage? It all leads to mass loss of colonies.

Along those same lines, the brand-new Cyborg allows all of the Wild flare abuse Phil listed, and on steroids: in this case the other players don't even have the usual remedies of compensation, Hand Zap, Finder, or waiting for him to run out of encounter cards.
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Mi Myma
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Bill Martinson wrote:
Along those same lines, the brand-new Cyborg allows all of the Wild flare abuse Phil listed, and on steroids: in this case the other players don't even have the usual remedies of compensation, Hand Zap, Finder, or waiting for him to run out of encounter cards.

Unless of course those aliens aren't in the game, in which case they would "normally be discarded", so Cyborg discards the flare and replaces it with a new card.

I suppose you could interpret passing a flare to the power as being included in "normally discarded", or say that since discarding it is still "normal" even if the power is in the game, then that also counts as "normally discarded". But yes, that's a stretch of the text.

And yes, I say this is yet another oversight on the part of FFG's writers. House rule to fix: "If a card would normally be passed to another player, it is passed to that player and replaced with another card from the deck."
 
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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Phil Fleischmann wrote:
House rule to fix: "If a card would normally be passed to another player, it is passed to that player and replaced with another card from the deck."

I would just cut to the chase and house-rule it the way it should have been written in the first place: "If the card should return to your hand, return it to your sheet instead". The other outcomes take care of themselves and don't even need to be listed. Just basic logic.
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Jefferson Krogh
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Bill Martinson wrote:
Phil Fleischmann wrote:
House rule to fix: "If a card would normally be passed to another player, it is passed to that player and replaced with another card from the deck."

I would just cut to the chase and house-rule it the way it should have been written in the first place: "If the card should return to your hand, return it to your sheet instead". The other outcomes take care of themselves and don't even need to be listed. Just basic logic.


Exactly. That's how I'll interpret it, if it comes up in my games.
 
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