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Subject: Slightly broken endgame rss

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Anthony Harlan

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I played a destruction-heavy strategy, so by the pirate fight I had already drawn and destroyed all of the aging cards. I was also able to draw all of the fighting cards from the deck. Among the cards I had in play were:

Strategy (2x Exchange)
Stragety (2x Exchange)
Eating (+2 life)

Both of the Strategy cards were unused, and my draw pile was empty. Play went like this.

Gamestate: SSe (lower case is used)
Exchange the Eating card: I need to draw a card, and Eating is now in my discard pile, shuffle the single card and draw it. Don't use the second exchange.

Gamestate: SsE
Use the Eating card +2 life

Gamestate: Sse
Exchange the Eating card, drawing the Eating card. Exchange the used Strategy card, drawing the Strategy card.

Gamestate: sSE
Loop the previous two steps, each time exchanging the used Strategy and the Eating for full life.

Gamestate: Ssr (R for Repeat: 1x Double)
Repeat the same process to double all of the values of the fighting cards.

Destroy pirates with 82 fight.

Is this how this should play, or is there a different reading of the exchange cards? (If you draw before you discard, that slightyl alters this, but can still be done by adding the Equipment (+2 Cards) card to the order)
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Henning B
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So when you say the cards on your deck represents all of the skills Crusoe has learned through fighting against the threads and you have drawn all the cards from your deck and still can't win against the pirate than the combined knowledge and strength of crusoe is too weak to fight against the pirate than you have to remain on the lovely island arrrh

Maybe you are right and it is with the rules you did there but I am not a fan of exploit the rules. I would go with my explanation and stop drawing cards.
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Steve
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The 1x Double ability is only activated at the end
of the fight, when you compare your fighting value with the hazard value.
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Anthony Harlan

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It is, but when you can draw that card multiple times, activating it before it's discarded each time, you can double all of the cards in play (except for itself).
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Bart de Vos
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Mxyzptlk wrote:
It is, but when you can draw that card multiple times, activating it before it's discarded each time, you can double all of the cards in play (except for itself).


I'm pretty sure you can't do this.
As said earlier, the 1x double skill is activated at the end of the fight, meaning, the card is not even looked at earlier than that. So you can't 'activate' its skill, then discard it and then draw it again to use its skill.There's only 1 count of the total fighting value and that's when the 1xdouble card(s) are assigned to a specific (unique) value. I hope this makes a more clear.
Only by copying the double card can you double more values.

About the strategy/eat 'trick'. I think it's within the rules to do this, but of course slightly feels like cheating. I haven't seen this situation come up, but I can easily imagine it happening. Often when I'm fighting pirates I try to get through my deck as far as I need to destroy most or all of my aging cards (for points optimalization, but keep in mind that sacrificing life also costs points). Your strategy would then be to just continue giving up life until you have all cards on the table, weed through the aging deck (if possible) and then do the strategy+eat-trick to get back to full life. I can see this work well under some circumstances, but in my opinion that's not how the game is supposed to be played, so I for one won't do this.

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Anthony Harlan

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robertopellizini wrote:
Mxyzptlk wrote:
It is, but when you can draw that card multiple times, activating it before it's discarded each time, you can double all of the cards in play (except for itself).


I'm pretty sure you can't do this.
As said earlier, the 1x double skill is activated at the end of the fight, meaning, the card is not even looked at earlier than that. So you can't 'activate' its skill, then discard it and then draw it again to use its skill.


Oops, I see now, that little sentence at the end of the 1xDouble rule. I guess you would have to do the trick re-draw all of your 1xCopy cards and use them at the end to copy your 1xDouble. (This seems like the only reliable way to defeat the 52 Pirate, though I haven't drawn him yet, so haven't really had to think about how.)

robertopellizini wrote:
About the strategy/eat 'trick'. I think it's within the rules to do this, but of course slightly feels like cheating.


I agree that it feels like it's not Rules as Intended (mostly because there is a score system that looks at your total health at the end of the game). That is why I posted here to see if the intent in game design was that the exchanged cards create a temporary out-of-play zone and aren't returned to the discard until the end of the turn, or some other variation on the theme.
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Steve
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I don't believe the copy ability can be used on the double cards either because the end of the fight is when you stop doing everything and compare the fight values with the hazard values. It is at that moment you double the card or cards.

As for the 52 pirate card, it allows you to add one point per drawn fighting card. So if you are able to draw all the fighting cards from the deck then you could easily defeat this pirate.

The exchange\+life loop is a formidable strategy and, if easily implemented, may require a house rule that places the drawn cards on top of the cards being exchanged, returning them only after the fight.
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Joshua Miller
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You actually can do this with just an Exchange +2 and an Exchange +1 (which is preferable because the Exchange +1 comes on a much better card).

However, setting things up to cycle through all 11 of the aging cards by the time you reach the pirates is tough! Whenever I've tried to set up this combo, I've usually lost (and never managed to get the combo). When pursuing a more balanced strategy, I nearly always win (level 4 of course).

You've got to destroy, destroy, destroy like mad. I think you need things to come out just right during the first run through your deck, so that you can burn through it at light speed, going to the brink of death in order to get an [/b]extremely[/b] thin deck for your second run. And you need to get at least one of the Destroy 1 cards in that first run, and quickly add the others.

(Also, I think you *are* allowed to copy the Double ability, but it doesn't happen until you tally your points. So you can't double a fighting card and then cycle the Double card back in to re-use it.)
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Anh Tú Tran
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I'm doing that. I play deckbuilding games quite often and one of the best strategies I use is to make your deck as efficient as possible by making it so thin that you can cycle through it and get the best of it. And preferably every turn.

Some of you probably know the early use of the "Chapel" in Dominion.

Friday is no exception and those "Exchange" effect are very helpful at the end of the game. I also use the same "Exchange - Exchange - Life+2" combo to max my life points.

The most important part for this endgame tactic is to understand that the most important ressource in Friday is your Life. And the most important concept about Life points is... to not lose the last one.
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James W
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Double-Clic wrote:
I'm doing that. I play deckbuilding games quite often and one of the best strategies I use is to make your deck as efficient as possible by making it so thin that you can cycle through it and get the best of it. And preferably every turn.

Some of you probably know the early use of the "Chapel" in Dominion.

Friday is no exception and those "Exchange" effect are very helpful at the end of the game. I also use the same "Exchange - Exchange - Life+2" combo to max my life points.

The most important part for this endgame tactic is to understand that the most important ressource in Friday is your Life. And the most important concept about Life points is... to not lose the last one.


Am I correct to presume that you are at the point where all of the Aging cards have been drawn and Destroyed?
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Charles Waterman
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I dunno. I think recycling the + life cards seems OK, but the idea that you can excange a card for the same card because your deck is that thin seems like a broken strategy, not a broken endgame. In other words, the word "exchange" seems by its very definition to mean the card has to change to a *different* card. Not the same card recycled. Now if you had just 3-4 cards and kept recycling them....yeah, but then you still should come to a point where *different* cards weren't available. If you play a "recycle 1" card there has to be at least one **other** card in your discard or deck piles to replace it.

....Or have I been living on the island too long?

Montebanc
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kos blaat
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of course you can use the SSE trick, but you won't win against most pirates because it is the open cards with which you must win, and you cannot use the life points to compensate. The rules are pretty clear on this. You must win against pirates. You may lose against hazards and pay with life. But you may not lose against any pirate.
 
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