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Subject: Caesar and Gaul? rss

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sam faraci
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Just noticed that there isnt many battles involving caesar and the gauls and i was wondering if this was on purpose so it could be its own expansion or if it there wasnt too many memorable battles in caesars conquest of Gaul.
 
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Guido Gloor
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There's just one single battle against the Helvetians, too - but that was probably because that conquest wasn't particularly spectacular indeed
 
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Kevin Duke
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Don't we have a battle with Vercengetorix?

I know it's not Alesia (a tough concept for the CCA machine).

Are you including the scenarios in Exp 2 as well? While that was called "Roman Civil Wars," at least half the scenarios are Rome v Barbarians, including at least two with Caesar in Britain (who are certainly Celts and closely linked to the Gauls).
 
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Kent Reuber
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The C&C Ancients web site lists 8 scenarios for the Gallic wars, but they're in expansions 2 and 3, which are out of print.

http://www.ccancients.net/Maps/Gallic-Wars-59-51-BC/index.ht...
 
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Tim M-L
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It is covered in an expansion. At least partially because the blocks in the base game would not represent the Gauls very well.
 
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BrentS
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There are numerous battles in Caesar's conquest of Gaul that aren't covered....a shame because I've always been fascinated with that conflict ever since reading Caesar's own history of the Gallic Wars.

I understand you're thinking of official scenarios....and there are a few of them but there also a few player designed ones to fill the gaps.....they're all collected at ccancients here. My stab at Alesia is at the end of the list.

It's sprung to mind again because a few months ago I finished reading Nero's Killing Machine, a history of the 14th Gemina Martia Victrix. While the 14th's defining moment came a century later in a battle that made it the most celebrated, famous and feared legion of its day, it was born in the Gallic War, raised by Caesar for his campaigns, and its early history in those conflicts was not so glorious but still very interesting. It's possible to play historical campaigns in C&C:A but I thought it would be a fascinating exercise to follow the life of a Roman legion from its inception to demise and had the idea of designing a series of scenarios that featured all of the battles throughout the 14th's history, with redesigns of some of the battles already published to focus on the 14th's role in those engagements. I'm part way into it but 400 years of battles is a lot of scenarios and I realised early I may have bitten off more than I can chew......I will finish it some time and there will be a number of Gallic war battles in there.

Brent.
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Robert Grainger
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Those Alesia scenarios look cool, Brent. I look forward to playing them when I get my hands on Expansion 2.
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sam faraci
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I know that there is i think maybe 3 scenarios in the barbarian expansion but seeing that Caesar is Romes most famous general and that was one of his greatest achievements i thought there would have been more scenarios for the Gallic wars.I'm not really much of a historian so i dont really know if most of these battles were just small skirmishes that arent really worth making scenarios for but i just found it odd that there wasnt more in the barbarian expansion.
 
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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kduke wrote:
Don't we have a battle with Vercengetorix?

I know it's not Alesia (a tough concept for the CCA machine).

Are you including the scenarios in Exp 2 as well? While that was called "Roman Civil Wars," at least half the scenarios are Rome v Barbarians, including at least two with Caesar in Britain (who are certainly Celts and closely linked to the Gauls).


While not official...

I have played this through a few times but have yet to find the right balance.

It is essentially an epic board wrapped around a single board

Alesia 52BC
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BrentS
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kduke wrote:
Don't we have a battle with Vercengetorix?



Gergovia....essentialy the prelude to Alesia and the humbling lessons Caesar learned there are what caused his tactical rethink at Alesia.....with spectacular and historic consequences.

Brent.
 
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BrentS
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Grainger wrote:
Those Alesia scenarios look cool, Brent. I look forward to playing them when I get my hands on Expansion 2.


Although I tried to do the battle justice, was generally happy with the scenarios and put plenty of research into it, it doesn't look like Alesia (I've long admired Steve's effort pictured in this thread....keep working on it!).....but it is a way to play the conflict with the components and rules you have a hand.

I'm not sure C&C:A can really be used to play a battle like Alesia. Perhaps if we ever see official siege rules for C&C:A it might get done properly. Even a dense system like GBoH didn't include it in its Gallic War game but produced a whole separate game for it with all the rules alterations and chrome required to model this unique situation. I've often thought of dipping my toe into the GBoH water with Caesar at Alesia but I believe it's so heavily modified to handle the conflict that it bears little relation to standard GBoH.

There are a few wrinkles in my Alesia scenarios and with more playtesting I've since improved their playability with some tweaks and with some excellent advice, particularly the unit mix and modelling of leadership in the last two scenarios. I'd meant to send them along to Alessandro for updating but never got around to it.....if that hasn't happened by the time you get your barbarians, and if you're still interested in trying them, Robert, drop me a geekmail and I'll send you the updated files.

Brent.
 
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Robert Grainger
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Thanks, I'll do that.
 
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BrentS
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cutter3377 wrote:
I know that there is i think maybe 3 scenarios in the barbarian expansion but seeing that Caesar is Romes most famous general and that was one of his greatest achievements i thought there would have been more scenarios for the Gallic wars.I'm not really much of a historian so i dont really know if most of these battles were just small skirmishes that arent really worth making scenarios for but i just found it odd that there wasnt more in the barbarian expansion.


It's true that with the scale and nature of the war, there were was much "police action" and skirmish level conflicts, involving tribal uprisings with single legions or even vexellations involved, but the beauty of C&C:A's abstraction is that it can be easily and seamlessly scaled from battles the size of Cannae down to these small conflicts. And despite being smaller conflicts, some of them are no less compelling, dramatic or tactically fascinating for their obscurity. Taking the example of the 14th GMV, the first and second battles of Atuatuca, although single legion conflicts, were very interesting and dramatic and their catastrophic results had major consequences for how Caesar conducted the rest of the Gallic War.

Brent.
 
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Robin REEVE
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Grainger wrote:
Those Alesia scenarios look cool, Brent. I look forward to playing them when I get my hands on Expansion 2.
Beware : French are touchy about the subject.
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Robert Grainger
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Robin wrote:
Grainger wrote:
Those Alesia scenarios look cool, Brent. I look forward to playing them when I get my hands on Expansion 2.
Beware : French are touchy about the subject.


 
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BrentS
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atilla66 wrote:


Gergovia from expansion 3 is the only scenario pitting Caesar against the Gauls. Caesar takes on the Britons and Germans in expansion 2, but not the Gauls.


There are actually half a dozen or so Gallic War scenarios spread across Expansions 2 and 3. While some of the battles don't involve central Gallic tribes, they're all linked in the same campaign. The Germanic tribes frequently took the opportunity of the vacuum created by Roman subjugation of Gallic tribes to cross the Rhine to raid and occupy territory and the feisty Belgic Gauls were a constant flea in Caesar's sandbox, particularly the Eburones and their king Ambiorix. Caesar had to deal with these other tribal groups as part of his conquest of central Gaul and so those conflicts are inextricably bound up in the in the Gallic War campaign.

While Caesar made his side foray into Britain in the middle of the Gallic War, it was more an act of adventurism and geographically isolated from his continental campaign, without much impact on its outcome (I think he conducted it for political mileage without any real intention of conquest) ......and while grouped with the Gallic War scenarios by timeline and general, was not a fundamental part of that campaign.

Brent.

Additional: While some of the scenarios in C&C:A are grouped together by campaign when published (such as the Servile War), others are scattered all over the place (such as the Gallic War). One of the most valuable features of ccancients is the enormous effort Alessandro has put in to grouping all the scenarios by campaign. I notice looking at the site today that Alessandro has requested some financial assistance in maintaining the site, which is a small ask for the huge amount of work he's put into it. It's a great resource.

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