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Subject: Plagiarism? rss

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T. B.
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In Matt Drake's review of this game (http://drakesflames.blogspot.com/2012/01/rip-off-game-review...), he accuses its 'designer' of extensively plagiarizing Fatal Frame the Card Game.

This is pretty serious. Perhaps Igor Krasnodymov would care to respond?

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Lee Fisher
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bohemian wrote:
In Matt Drake's review of this game (http://drakesflames.blogspot.com/2012/01/rip-off-game-review..., he accuses its 'designers' of extensively plagiarising Fatal Frame the Card Game.

This is pretty serious. Perhaps Igor Krasnodymov would care to respond?



See also
FATAL FRAME?
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Mark Chaplin
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I've stopped posting parcels to the Russian federation...

True story.


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T. K.
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People, please visit here, perhaps we can make the BGG admins do something about it.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/750102/plagiarism-attent...
 
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Makis
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suckerj wrote:
People, please visit here, perhaps we can make the BGG admins do something about it.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/750102/plagiarism-attent...


This is a legal issue. What would the BGG Admins have to do with this? This has nothing to do with BGG.
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Milan Mašát
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This is a sad story, but as said it is legal matter.
As for our country (Czech rep.) the only things that can be copyrighted on a game are name and gameboard. Ideas and rules can be used as free as you want. And if they are re-themed I doubt there is anything to do.
I have encountered this multiple times, if you do not like this behaviour, do not buy the game. But it is out so it should be on BGG (my 2 cents).
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Artem Stepin
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Yugblad wrote:
I've stopped posting parcels to the Russian federation...

True story.


It seems a bit unfair to me that you evaluate the whole country based on a single man's deceitful act. soblue
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Makis
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Jasly wrote:
Yugblad wrote:
I've stopped posting parcels to the Russian federation...

True story.


It seems a bit unfair to me that you evaluate the whole country based on a single man's deceitful act. soblue


Tell that to North Korea.
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Mark Chaplin
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Jasly wrote:
Yugblad wrote:
I've stopped posting parcels to the Russian federation...

True story.


It seems a bit unfair to me that you evaluate the whole country based on a single man's deceitful act. soblue


And what makes you think it's a single man's act?


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Artem Stepin
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Yugblad wrote:
Jasly wrote:
Yugblad wrote:
I've stopped posting parcels to the Russian federation...

True story.


It seems a bit unfair to me that you evaluate the whole country based on a single man's deceitful act. soblue


And what makes you think it's a single man's act?


I thought the story started after Haunted Village situation. Now I see it was the wrong presumption, wasn't it?
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Paul Nowak
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The human race, to which so many of my readers belong, has been playing at children's games from the beginning, and will probably do it till the end, which is a nuisance for the few people who grow up. - GKC
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Vodnyk wrote:
This is a sad story, but as said it is legal matter.
As for our country (Czech rep.) the only things that can be copyrighted on a game are name and gameboard. Ideas and rules can be used as free as you want. And if they are re-themed I doubt there is anything to do.


Rules are the same in the U.S. From the Copyright office:

Quote:
Copyright does not protect the idea for a game, its name or title, or the method or methods for playing it. Nor does copyright protect any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in developing, merchandising, or playing a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles. Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form.

Material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container may be registrable.


http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/493249/mythbusting-game-desi...
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Maxim Simonov
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Марк Чаплин.

Британская нелюбовь к России - давно известный факт.

Тем не менее до сих пор забавно видеть именно такие её проявления.

"Я прекратил высылать посылки в Россию" - из-за того, что один конкретный человек из России плохо поступил?

Я могу назвать сотни примеров, когда парни из Англии поступали отвратительно. И что?

Я всё равно купил твою игру "Револьвер". Легальную версию, в магазине Игровед. Логика простая. Один английский парень сделал хорошую игру, я куплю её и поддержу тем самым его. Даже если мне не нравятся действия его соотечественников. Даже если он сам встаёт в шовинистическую позу.

А ты можешь дальше пребывать в умилительном состоянии "как я молодец, какие все русские плохие".

Как-нибудь переживём и без твоих посылок.
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Manuel Ingeland
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That's true
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I wonder why no action was taken by BGG to remove the "designers" badge. Can I plagiarize a game and be called "designer" too now?
 
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Russ Williams
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Tzer wrote:
I wonder why no action was taken by BGG to remove the "designers" badge. Can I plagiarize a game and be called "designer" too now?

Yes, I believe you can. Whether you want to is another question.

Seriously, I think BGG does not want to get into the business of trying to decide whether a game plagiarized another. Should David Sirlin's designer badge be removed because many people think his Flash Duel plagiarized Reiner Knizia's En Garde? Should Reiner Knizia have his designer badge removed because many people think his Callisto is a Blokus ripoff or his Big 5 is a Qwirkle ripoff? Should authors of various deck-building have their designer badges removed because they copy some mechanisms from Dominion? Who would make these decisions and on what basis? Some extreme cases like this one may seem fairly clear, but there are large number of gray cases, and a lot of people would argue that reuse is not plagiarism but a normal part of the creative process. The idea of BGG policing this would seem to open a huge can of worms, not to mention possibly opening them up to legal charges from offended designers.
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David Sirlin and Knizia have done other, original games, whereas this one was pretty much copied 1:1 and the designed has NO other game designed to prove he is a real "designer".
 
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Russ Williams
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Tzer wrote:
David Sirlin and Knizia have done other, original games, whereas this one was pretty much copied 1:1 and the designed has NO other game designed to prove he is a real "designer".

I explicitly acknowledged that "Some extreme cases like this one may seem fairly clear". But that doesn't mean BGG necessarily wants to get into the generally messy business of trying to decide plagiarism cases, which are usually far less clear than this and would create many quarrels (cf the En Garde - Flash Duel debate).

In any case, the "designer badge" is not some prestigious award that is given for originality (although many seem to treat it that way). It is a technical device used to link bibliographical information in the database according to a game's publication info, in the same way that a game's publisher is listed, even if that publisher merely plagiarized the game, and in the same way that you'd expect to be able to look up a book by its published author in a book database, even if it was widely agreed that the author plagiarized.
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Russ Williams
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To be fair, I just found out that apparently BGG does want to "get into the generally messy business of trying to decide plagiarism cases" (to my surprise)... The Strategy Game (an apparently unauthorized direct copy of Blokus) got created as a separate entry in the BGG database with a note in its description:

Quote:
UNAUTHORIZED PRODUCTION
The information that BGG has on this item indicates that The Strategy Game is a non-authorized version of Blokus.


Apparently the game is identical to Blokus, rather than merely very closely based on it.
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