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Subject: Please: convince me not to buy this game! rss

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Michele Esmanech
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I know: it's a strange request, especially after I opened a thread in the Recomendations section, asking for suggestions, regarding buying this game, or not.

My issue is that the game is fairly new (IIRC, it came out only 2 months ago... in some places not even two months ago) and I know how a "new" "shiny" toy looks good, but the hype wares out just as fast it lit.

I have also read lots of reviews, and most of them are super positive about this game... but, given the hype I was talking before, I read them in a weary way.

So: please, tell the negative things, about this game; things that should turn off this game; tell me any negative thing you have encountered playing this game...tell me why I should not buy Mage Knight the board game.

thanx

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Chris Linneman
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Sorry to say, but it's the best game of 2011, hands down. If you only buy one game from last year, this should be it.

Negatives:
Long, especially with new players.
Prone to runaway leader when there is a skill gap between players.
Can be fiddly and "thinky," resulting in long periods of downtime if players are prone to AP.

Basically, it has all the "negatives" of Through the Ages, which I also rate a 10.
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Daniel Drickman
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I have not played the game yet, but I don't see the praise for this one dying out. I think as long as you can get past the complexity and play time, the game is a sure fire winner. Those are two fairly large barriers though.
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Aaron Morgan
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The rules are fairly complex, and it can take some time to find a specific rule within the two books and the reference cards. The cards are a little thin.

Two or three reads of the rules and some sleeves fixes those problems, and you're left with an incredible game.
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Ed R
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I think this game will actually get better with time.

- The game plays faster the better you understand the rules.
- The included scenarios will keep you busy for quite some time.
- This game begs for homemade scenarios by our fellow bgg'ers which will result in even more replayability.

The only negative Things I can think of with this game is the set-up/clean-up, and the space required to play. The space isn't too big of a deal for me while at home but when I am at work I do not have a big enough place to play it.

**let me add I am a firefighter and when working overnights I enjoy playing a game to get me through when it is slow.


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Tim Kelly
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Ikim wrote:

So: please, tell the negative things, about this game;

I'd sooner tell you good stuff about that state just north of the Red River.
TK
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Thierry Camprubi
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Mage Knight est excellentissime !! > Mage Knight is a blast !!
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Give you a favor : buy it!
Best enjoyable game I have seen for months, may be years...
Truly a masterpiece imho.
Fairly complex, but a couple of plays and you'll discover a gem.
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Matt
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I can also appreciate how the "shinyness" of a game can wear off but honestly I don't see it happening here.

The gameplay is super solid and engaging. Its not some kind of flavor of the month type of game, but rather a blending of elements that result in something really strong.

An example of newness wearing off on me was Quarriors. I thought the idea of a dice driven deck building game was awesome. For the first few plays it was, but it very quickly went downhill for me when I saw how little the game played out (in my opinion). Definitely a case of getting caught up in the hype for me. I think the situation is different here though, and the variety in the game is great.

Matt
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David Debien
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Hi Michele,

Not sure if you caught my review, but I try to shine a light on the positives and negatives of every game I review. Despite the negatives I had to point out in my review, I still really enjoy Mage Knight. I have played the solo version for the first time the other night (after I wrote the review) and really enjoyed it. I am not much of a solo board gamer, but I really enjoyed it.

Shameless link to my review: Mage Knight – Another Mixed Review by Casualgod
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Sean Shaw
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QBert80 wrote:
Sorry to say, but it's the best game of 2011, hands down. If you only buy one game from last year, this should be it.

Negatives:
Long, especially with new players.
Prone to runaway leader when there is a skill gap between players.
Can be fiddly and "thinky," resulting in long periods of downtime if players are prone to AP.

Basically, it has all the "negatives" of Through the Ages, which I also rate a 10.


The boys of Eclipse might want to have a word with you at twilight...

ninja
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Michele Esmanech
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Well, it seems like I am stuck with this game, as it looks like it has no negative points... (gamewise, at least)...

Guys, thanx a lot.. really, I appreciate your time, trying to convince not buy the game... pun intended...

casualgod wrote:
Hi Michele,

Not sure if you caught my review, but I try to shine a light on the positives and negatives of every game I review. Despite the negatives I had to point out in my review, I still really enjoy Mage Knight. I have played the solo version for the first time the other night (after I wrote the review) and really enjoyed it. I am not much of a solo board gamer, but I really enjoyed it.

Shameless link to my review: Mage Knight – Another Mixed Review by Casualgod


Thanx David, I read your review very intensly, and I enjoyed every little bit, in fact I especially appreciated your negative points (to some extent, even more than the positive ones: far too many times I read super-positive review, and too few times, reviews that actually say something is "negative".

thanx guys... really, thank a lot... now I HAVE TO SPEND 70+ euros...
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Michael Aldridge
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tkelly wrote:
I'd sooner tell you good stuff about that state just north of the Red River.
TK


You said "Sooner".
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Peter O
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1) It will suck your soul out, one little card cut at a time.

2) It's python squeeze on your sanity as you travel through mythical hexes with powers that leave you when you need them the most will crush your ability to communicate with beloved family members until you're a desparate, homeless, shell of a mortal.

3) The box itself exudes a poison that will turn your skin into a warty, cracked, purple, mess.

4) 17.5 baby seals per game were clubbed to death to make this abomination.

5) Your GOD (or if you have no GOD one will be created for you) forbids playing this game and will stretch your soul out over the expanse of the universe and codemn you to watch 'I love lucy' reruns for eternity for merely thinking about buying it.

6) All proceeds go to telemarketers.
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Jason Rupp
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Everyone above was far too positive. This game does have some pretty big negative aspects. For some people, they don't care about them, but they are there.

1.) The rules are really bad. There are 2 rule books and some of the info is only found inside one of the books (the intro book no less) or only on some player aid cards. It's going to take a long time to learn this one and even then you will likely be playing the game incorrectly without knowing it.

2.) The downtime between turns is very high. I wouldn't even suggest trying to play a 4 player game (which would be another negative). You better hope you only have 1 or 2 other people to play with. Even with 3 player, the downtime is pretty large. If you have anyone with AP (my group doesn't, but I still find the downtime as a negative) I couldn't imagine playing this game.

3.) The playtime is really long. The game feels really epic in the full scenarios but they also take around 4 hours (and that's a 2 player game).

4.) Near the end of the game when you attack a city, the downtime can be massive. Figuring out how to kill 4-5 guys from a city with 10 cards will often take 10-15 minutes. I don't normally have AP but figuring out turns like this takes me forever.

5.) The game is complex. If you're buying Make Knight, you probably know this in advance, but it has a lot of rules. Some people don't like that.

6.) The game takes forever to setup and put away. I know a few friends who can't stand games like this. MK will take you 10-15 minutes to setup all the little pieces and just as long to put them away.

7.) The cards are really poor quality. Be prepared to buy additional sleeves for them if you want the game to last.

The downtime aspect is starting to bug me a little bit personally. I enjoy the game a lot (I still rate it an 8.5) but it's not getting any better for our group and it does affect my enjoyment a little.
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James Ludlow
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rrrrupp wrote:
1.) The rules are really bad. There are 2 rule books and some of the info is only found inside one of the books (the intro book no less) or only on some player aid cards. It's going to take a long time to learn this one and even then you will likely be playing the game incorrectly without knowing it.


The rule books are bad. The rules are quite good. The biggest counterexample there would be the muddled cold, fire, coldfire attacking and blocking rules.
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Dave Horn
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Long game
Large footprint required
Some hate the cards - they don't like the feel and/or card stock
Inserts (except the mini insert) are useless
Components packaged too tightly and like to stick to each other
Some think the rules were poorly organized (spread around between two books and cards)


Easily best game to come along in a while. Came out too late to make the awards in 2011, it better get its due in 2012. Its an 11.




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Michele Esmanech
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rrrrupp wrote:
Everyone above was far too positive. This game does have some pretty big negative aspects. For some people, they don't care about them, but they are there.

1.) The rules are really bad. There are 2 rule books and some of the info is only found inside one of the books (the intro book no less) or only on some player aid cards. It's going to take a long time to learn this one and even then you will likely be playing the game incorrectly without knowing it.

2.) The downtime between turns is very high. I wouldn't even suggest trying to play a 4 player game (which would be another negative). You better hope you only have 1 or 2 other people to play with. Even with 3 player, the downtime is pretty large. If you have anyone with AP (my group doesn't, but I still find the downtime as a negative) I couldn't imagine playing this game.

3.) The playtime is really long. The game feels really epic in the full scenarios but they also take around 4 hours (and that's a 2 player game).

4.) Near the end of the game when you attack a city, the downtime can be massive. Figuring out how to kill 4-5 guys from a city with 10 cards will often take 10-15 minutes. I don't normally have AP but figuring out turns like this takes me forever.

5.) The game is complex. If you're buying Make Knight, you probably know this in advance, but it has a lot of rules. Some people don't like that.

6.) The game takes forever to setup and put away. I know a few friends who can't stand games like this. MK will take you 10-15 minutes to setup all the little pieces and just as long to put them away.

7.) The cards are really poor quality. Be prepared to buy additional sleeves for them if you want the game to last.

The downtime aspect is starting to bug me a little bit personally. I enjoy the game a lot (I still rate it an 8.5) but it's not getting any better for our group and it does affect my enjoyment a little.


Thanx a lot Jason: i appreciate your points.
I mainly play solo... No, let me correct my self: i ONLY play solo, so, down time is not an is sue for me. Apart the down time, are there other issues I should be aware of?
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Jason Rupp
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It's the best solo game I've ever played.
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Michele Esmanech
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rrrrupp wrote:
It's the best solo game I've ever played.


You finally sold me to it! 'nough said
 
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Chris Leigh
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Its so good solo, its got to the point where i'm choosing to play it over Skyrim on the PC. I'd go as far as to say its better solo than with others :o
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Paul Grogan
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rrrrupp wrote:
There are 2 rule books and some of the info is only found inside one of the books (the intro book no less)


Please, please, please tell me where these rules are that are only in the walkthrough. I've had a few emails from people with some they have found, and in all but one case, they are in the rulebook, I just had to tell them where. And the only one that wasnt is actually just a game-term. The actual rule is in the rulebook, just not with the same 'term' used in the walkthrough.

My deadline for completing my involvement in the new rulebook is drawing near and I'm really keen to ensure that there is nothing which is only in the walkthrough, but so far haven't found anything.

I think its a bit unfair for people to keep saying "there are some rules only in the walkthrough", when currently I cant find any. If there are, I will hold my hand up and say sorry.
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Dave Horn
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blunder1983 wrote:
Its so good solo, its got to the point where i'm choosing to play it over Skyrim on the PC. I'd go as far as to say its better solo than with others :o


Glad to see I'm not the only one struggling with Skyrim vs. Mage Knight. Fortunately, time is usually making the problem easy. Thirty minutes or less free time -> Skyrim. More than 30 mins available and a free table -> MK. I've only played MK solo so far, but I do love it solo. It at least tied as my favorite solo game ever.

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Jason Rupp
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PaulGrogan wrote:
rrrrupp wrote:
There are 2 rule books and some of the info is only found inside one of the books (the intro book no less)


Please, please, please tell me where these rules are that are only in the walkthrough. I've had a few emails from people with some they have found, and in all but one case, they are in the rulebook, I just had to tell them where. And the only one that wasnt is actually just a game-term. The actual rule is in the rulebook, just not with the same 'term' used in the walkthrough.

My deadline for completing my involvement in the new rulebook is drawing near and I'm really keen to ensure that there is nothing which is only in the walkthrough, but so far haven't found anything.

I think its a bit unfair for people to keep saying "there are some rules only in the walkthrough", when currently I cant find any. If there are, I will hold my hand up and say sorry.


Some of the rules for the cities are only on the player aid card. Also the movement costs are only found on the card (I didn't know until recently that moving onto a city is only 2 movement). I can't tell you off the top of my head which rules are only in the walk-through. I have a game night tonight but I can go through it tomorrow and let you know.
 
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Sébastien A
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- My chief complaint: There's nothing really unique, either in the mechanics or the approach to the setting, that would make it memorable. It's basically a deckbuilding game like Dominion, coupled with the tile/ressource management of the Civilization board game.

- It takes a while to 'tune' your deck (a bit more than half the length of most scenarios), and even then, your draw remains completely random, so what you can do in a turn mostly hinges on luck. This also means that if you decide to do a specific task (recruit an interesting unit, conquer a certain site), it might take you a LONG time to be in a position to accomplish it.

- For some reason, skills are tokens, while all your other abilities are cards, which makes it very easy to overlook their effects when you're planning your actions. Also, skill tokens only feature icons, so you have to refer to an explanation card to find out what each does exactly. That wouldn't be too bad if they were exclusive to each character... but that's not the case -- which means you have to interrupt another player if you want to understand what some skills do.

- Not much interaction between players, even if you include PvP or cooperative assaults.

- It feels like it was rushed to market: numerous typos in the rules, important rules and explanations spread over 2 books and a dozen cards, unnecessary complexity that could have been easily fixed (see my comments on skill tokens).

Overall, I'm underwhelmed. If it weren't for the fact that I got it as a gift, I would have probably returned it to the store by now.
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Clayton Helme
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PaulGrogan wrote:
Please, please, please tell me where these rules are that are only in the walkthrough.
The bit about scoring is only in the walkthrough book, at least I haven't yet found it in the Rulebook...
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