El-ad David Amir
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The general mold for each civilization in the game seems to be one starting bonus (extra figure, extra units, great person, etc.) and some permanent bonus (3 trade for two hammers, greater stacking limit/move speed, etc.). However, India breaks this mold, since it does not have a starting bonus; the starting metropolis is an outcome of Agriculture. Furthermore, this could even be considered a disadvantage, since India's starting tile does not offset the metropolis as well as other tiles, and therefore they cannot choose to expand their metropolis to a neighboring tile.

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Ricardo Donoso
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I think you got it wrong.

India starting with metropolis ALREADY starts with a metropolis as it's capital, so, your starting title have 8 outskirts squares.

Also, you have a very good advantage, that is harvesting a resource and using it as another. It is not as good as the Arabs advantages, but yet, India is a very good Civ, and playing it is not difficult in my opinion.

Just combine your power of spending one resource for antoher and research the "right" techs.
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Alright, and Greece starts as Democracy ALREADY as their government; Rome with Republic as their government. Why do they get an additional starting bonus on top of their tech bonus?
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Ricardo Donoso
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If you think Republic is that much a bonus, you can research it in turn 1 and use it's powers in turn 2!
 
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Ricardo Donoso
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But if you are just complaining that you think India should start with more, then why wouldn't you complain that China should start with something more useful then "walls in the capital".
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Likewise, you can research Agriculture on turn one and get the bonus on turn two... I can't seem to follow your reasoning here... And yes, China only gets City Walls, but they get SOMETHING. India doesn't get anything beyond their tech. They only get their tech, not starting bonus. I'm just wondering way (esp. since they seem to be the weakest from all expansion civs, at least according to the statistics on the forums here).
 
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Ian Kelly
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IirionClaus wrote:
Alright, and Greece starts as Democracy ALREADY as their government; Rome with Republic as their government. Why do they get an additional starting bonus on top of their tech bonus?


It seems to me that Rome and Greece are in the exact same situation as India in this regard. As you said, starting with a metropolis is just an outcome of the Agriculture tech. Likewise, starting with Democracy and Republic governments is just an outcome of the corresponding techs -- an optional outcome in those cases, but still something that costs nothing extra beyond having the tech. So I don't follow why you argue that Rome and Greece have an "additional starting bonus", but India does not.
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Well Democracy is a level 2 tech which is something of a bonus and an outrageously good starting tech too (1 coin and 1 tech in round 1, another tech (possibly level 2!!) in round 2!).

The Indians certainly *look* weaker but their power may well be better than it first appears ...also they get the +1 culture per resource square thing... (pretty worthless but it's still an extra ability)
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Peristarkawan wrote:
It seems to me that Rome and Greece are in the exact same situation as India in this regard. As you said, starting with a metropolis is just an outcome of the Agriculture tech. Likewise, starting with Democracy and Republic governments is just an outcome of the corresponding techs -- an optional outcome in those cases, but still something that costs nothing extra beyond having the tech. So I don't follow why you argue that Rome and Greece have an "additional starting bonus", but India does not.


Dear gods, you're completely correct. Silly me o_O Thanks!

EDIT: to clarify, I had this weird misconception that they have an additional bonus...
 
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Ricardo Donoso
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Timlagor wrote:
Well Democracy is a level 2 tech which is something of a bonus and an outrageously good starting tech too (1 coin and 1 tech in round 1, another tech (possibly level 2!!) in round 2!).

The Indians certainly *look* weaker but their power may well be better than it first appears ...also they get the +1 culture per resource square thing... (pretty worthless but it's still an extra ability)

You can't have 1 coin and 1 tech on round 1! To get the coin you must spend the trade, spending the trade you don't get the research.
 
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Ian Kelly
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rdonoso wrote:
Timlagor wrote:
Well Democracy is a level 2 tech which is something of a bonus and an outrageously good starting tech too (1 coin and 1 tech in round 1, another tech (possibly level 2!!) in round 2!).

The Indians certainly *look* weaker but their power may well be better than it first appears ...also they get the +1 culture per resource square thing... (pretty worthless but it's still an extra ability)

You can't have 1 coin and 1 tech on round 1! To get the coin you must spend the trade, spending the trade you don't get the research.


If you start on one of the 4-trade spots and play that the Democracy bonus is also doubled in the first turn (I don't believe it is, see the recent thread on that), then you would have 12 trade in the first turn, so you could get a coin and still research.
 
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Ricardo Donoso
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Ian, I also don't think that the trade from democracy is doubled on turn 1, but that is indeed another thread.
 
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