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Subject: Is it similar to Dominion rss

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MS-06 Zaku II
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Hi,

After reading the description, I feel that this game is quite similar to Dominion. ??

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Dennis Schwarz
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maybe on the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one....
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I am sorry, but due to my subscriptions to Mage Knight, where a lot of threads are opened and the question seemed viable, I didn't properly read that this thread was opened for the Briefcase game.
So, I have to correct my statement and say that I cannot really comment on the game, since I haven't played it....modest

Sorry for any confusion that my original post caused....
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Bruce Nettleton
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After reading over the rules, there are a number of similarities. The primary difference seems to revolve around the purchase of companies. You buy these much like you buy the Kingdom Cards in Dominion, but instead of shuffling them into your deck, you keep them on the table and can claim their benefits repeatedly without waiting for the card to "cycle" through the deck.

Also, when victory points are purchased, the cards with which you buy the victory points are "trashed" rather than run back through your deck, which compounds the rate at which victory cards "clog up" your deck.

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Sotiris Tsantilas
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pastorbln wrote:
After reading over the rules, there are a number of similarities. The primary difference seems to revolve around the purchase of companies. You buy these much like you buy the Kingdom Cards in Dominion, but instead of shuffling them into your deck, you keep them on the table and can claim their benefits repeatedly without waiting for the card to "cycle" through the deck.


Correct. In addition, in order to activate the companies, you have to use resources which you purchase from the market.

pastorbln wrote:
Also, when victory points are purchased, the cards with which you buy the victory points are "trashed" rather than run back through your deck, which compounds the rate at which victory cards "clog up" your deck.



This happens only during the Central Bank action. In all other cases, when purchasing companies or resources, all the "Buy" decision cards you use run back through your deck.
Note that you don't keep victory points as cards in your hand.
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Tadeu Zubaran
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So they took all the elegant parts of Dominion out

pastorbln wrote:
After reading over the rules, there are a number of similarities. The primary difference seems to revolve around the purchase of companies. You buy these much like you buy the Kingdom Cards in Dominion, but instead of shuffling them into your deck, you keep them on the table and can claim their benefits repeatedly without waiting for the card to "cycle" through the deck.

Also, when victory points are purchased, the cards with which you buy the victory points are "trashed" rather than run back through your deck, which compounds the rate at which victory cards "clog up" your deck.

 
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Kevin B. Smith
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I don't know a lot about Briefcase, but it seems that the ability to steal cards from other players is a pretty big difference.
 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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tkzubaran wrote:
So they took all the elegant parts of Dominion out


If this minimizes shuffling by even a small degree, I'd argue that it may be providing relief from the most inelegant part of Dominion.
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Cameron McKenzie
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Seems to me that "deck building" is where the similarities end.
All cards in Dominion live in the same deck and can be compared more directly.

In Briefcase, cards kind of live in three different areas - Decision cards make up a deck similar to Dominion (there are 4 types of decisions, and which ones are most valuable will depend on your strategy).

You have resource cards which are available to you when needed... You don't need to draw them. However, they can also be stolen and there is a limit to the number you can hold.

Finally, companies which (generally) allow you to turn resources into decisions, and many of which give additional affects similar to Dominion actions. Unlike Dominion, you don't have to draw them to use them. You just need to fuel them with resources.

I think managing these different card types will make for a much different experience from Dominion. The cards in your "deck" really make up the four most basic actions, while your companies will enhance and expand how those four basic actions function. Seems like there is much more potential for creating good combos and an "efficiency engine"
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Peter Asimakis
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The difference is that Briefcase is a game, whilst Dominion is a mechanic!

PLB.
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Pierre Le Bear wrote:
The difference is that Briefcase is a game, whilst Dominion is a mechanic!

PLB.


Nice troll. Having just played Briefcase twice, I am reminded just how good a game Dominion is and how hard it is for other designers to make a better game that uses the deck building mechanism.

Briefcase was a total bust for our group. We thought we'd really like it. We cleared the bad vibes garnered from the first game so as to get a clear view for the second game. After game number two, we liked it even less. The guy who owns it didn't like it. The guy who won both games didn't like it. I very much disliked it.

Dominion is a great game. Briefcase is not.

Edit: To address the OP's question, the game is only passingly similar to Dominion. It uses a deck building mechanism, but you gain victory points in entirely different ways. You also have a tableau that you build which is always part of your game. And furthermore, you purchase and then use resources, which are always available once purchased, until you spend them.

As a poster noted above, it takes the deck building mechanism from Dominion and muddies it up, while removing the elegance.

It's worth mentioning that I'm not a die-hard Dominion fan at the expense of all things deckbuilding. Also I fully wanted and expected to love this game. I can't remember the last time I so clearly did not like a game. What a disappointment.
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Peter Asimakis
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Each to his own.
You like Dominion, I don't.
I like Briefcase, you don't.
The expression "troll" doesn't mean that much to me, perhaps it is a function of my being a little older than your average geek.
It doesn't sound very complimentary.
I have no problem with that.
I do have a problem with being accused of being one for expressing an opinion strongly that differs from yours.

PLB.
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None of my post is directed at you, except the first two words. It is not intended as a rebuttal.

A troll is someone (or a post) who is condescending or inflammatory, without being informative or constructive in their criticism.

I personally have no problem with you disliking Dominion, nor am I bothered that you like Briefcase. In fact, I am very happy that you like it and I hope you continue to enjoy it.

I think I understand the intent of your last sentence, even if you didn't actually say what you intended. Regardless, I revel in opinions that differ from mine. That's how I learn new things.

I am considering whether I'll write a more in-depth review to air my problems with the design. I'm disinclined to because I only have a few plays under my belt, but I'm enticed due to the lack of reviews available. The only meaty English review is very poor quality in my opinion and comes across as a possible shill to me. I can't read Greek, and my Spanish isn't good enough to make an informed opinion of that review.
 
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Peter Asimakis
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Quote:
None of my post is directed at you, except the first two words.

Two words is all it takes.

Quote:
A troll is someone (or a post) who is condescending or inflammatory, without being informative or constructive in their criticism.


Thank you for the explanation.

Condescending, definitely not. My knowledge and tastes in gaming are not superior to anyone elses.

Inflammatory, definitely so. The comment was supposed to challenge the thinking about a game that is held in high regard by this community if one can rely on ratings, and let people know that there are alternate points of view. It is my take on a game I do not like.

Informative/constructive. Difficult for a one line comment to do all that.
Are all critical one line comments considered trolling?

I find the deck building mechanic a very clever and good one.
Dominion fails for me as a game because that is where the cleverness ends.
Obtaining more and more cards, striving for killer combinations, cycling through one's deck efficiently are all well and good but it is all rather purposeless, without any narrative, and ultimately, without any fun.
The mechanic IS the game.
That doesn't mean it cannot be enjoyed by others.
I feel Dominion was a great introduction for a mechanic, which others have used in a much more purposeful way. A Few Acres of Snow, despite its HH flaw, does a much better job of giving life to this style of game.
Briefcase does the same. I'm sure there will be others exploring and using
this mechanic for years to come.

Mostly I keep thoughts like this to myself, but on this occasion I felt obliged to respond to the claim of condescension, inflammation and lack of constructive criticism. The criticism is not constructive, because it can't be. I don't seek to improve a game loved by countless people as is, and I hope they continue to do so. This response merely seeks to show that the one line you considered trolling has some thought behind it.
I am also certain that I am not the only one and certainly not the first
to think this about Dominion.

Quote:
I think I understand the intent of your last sentence, even if you didn't actually say what you intended.


I'll clarify.
I was offended at being called a 'troll' for expressing a strong opinion that is contrary to yours and probably to many others.

I hope you and your group continue to enjoy Dominion.

PLB.

 
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Pierre Le Bear wrote:

Inflammatory, definitely so. The comment was supposed to challenge the thinking about a game that is held in high regard by this community if one can rely on ratings, and let people know that there are alternate points of view. It is my take on a game I do not like.


Hence the trolling comment. The core definition trolling is posting comments of a purposefully inflammatory nature.

Let people know there are alternate points of view? Really? I'm relatively new to BGG and even I have seen literally hundreds of posts about how Dominion is lacking in theme and despised by legions despite it's popularity.

That doesn't mean you're not welcome to add one more post sharing your opinion, but doing so with the admitted intention of being inflammatory, can certainly be seen by some as trolling.

The only place the "troll" label falls apart here, is that it is also usually attached to someone that has no interest in the actual topic at hand and comes in purely to rile people up (android folks dropping in on iOS topics for example), whereas your own comment directly addresses the titled subject of this thread and was entirely relevant albeit derogatory.

I wasn't at all bothered by your comment but if you enjoy stirring things up on purpose then I'd suggest learning how to be equally unruffled when someone cries troll in response, even if it is a bit of a stretch.

Pierre Le Bear wrote:
Obtaining more and more cards, striving for killer combinations, cycling through one's deck efficiently are all well and good but it is all rather purposeless, without any narrative, and ultimately, without any fun.


So a game without a narrative is purposeless and without any fun? It's fine if you're not a fan of games without a strong connected theme and narrative, many aren't, but you just entirely dismissed the value of every abstract game ever created including Go, Crokinole, Bridge, Blokus and an endless array of others.

It may not be to your personal taste, but the long history of gaming has demonstrated that a truly well crafted mechanic can most certainly make for a game enjoyed by millions regardless of theme or narrative.
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Peter Asimakis
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Quote:
So a game without a narrative is purposeless and without any fun? It's fine if you're not a fan of games without a strong connected theme and narrative, many aren't, but you just entirely dismissed the value of every abstract game ever created including Go, Crokinole, Bridge, Blokus and an endless array of others.


How extraordinary!
I'm talking about Dominion.
Of course lack of theme and narrative does not equate with purposelessness and lack of fun! I enjoy many themeless abstracts, backgammon and numerous card games for example. One (amongst many) purpose of playing games is to have fun. Dominion doesn't tick that box for me. Apart from the deck building mechanism, I don't find much merit in the game.
That is my opinion and I will express it robustly, as I did above.
I am talking about my assessment of one game.
You are making the claim that I have dismissed the value of every abstract, not me!

Quote:
Let people know there are alternate points of view? Really? I'm relatively new to BGG and even I have seen literally hundreds of posts about how Dominion is lacking in theme and despised by legions despite it's popularity.


Yes really. You may have seen hundreds of posts, I haven't, I don't read posts relating to Dominion because the game is lost to me. For all I know, practically all that is written about the game is glowing, though I doubt it.

Quote:
I wasn't at all bothered by your comment but if you enjoy stirring things up on purpose then I'd suggest learning how to be equally unruffled when someone cries troll in response, even if it is a bit of a stretch.


I don't buy the "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" argument in this context.
The difference is that I criticized a game, and the response was a personal one against me.
I agree with you that the use of the word "troll" in this setting "is a bit of a stretch".
I guess I am expecting a degree of decorum and respect that seems to be vanishing from the world in general.
My problem really.

Happy gaming!

 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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Yet ironically it was your own comment which was taken to be lacking in decorum by Misterboy, in this case not at all a stretch when you've admitted that it was inflammatory by design. I don't believe there are many social circles where bening intentionally inflammatory is considered decorous.

But alas, in a world with ever declining decorum I suppose it's inevitable that most will feel it's everyone but themselves who are responsible for it's short supply.

Happy gaming indeed!
 
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Peter Asimakis
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Well said. I agree with your statement about everyone thinking it is everyone else who is at fault.
I used the word 'inflammatory' because it was the word used in the response and I did not want to be seen to be twisting words to suit my needs.
It was provocative, inflammatory, or any word one chooses to appropriately use in this context.
It was however a valid (for some, including me) criticism of the game.
The response was criticism of the person, not the criticism.
It is a case of "playing the man, not the ball", and poor form.
That, is the issue as I see it.
I respect your right to disagree.

PLB.
 
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Perhaps it's down to your admitted lack of intimacy with the nomenclature of trolling, but you weren't actually attacked personally. Rather your comment was. Not you, but the action taken.

"Nice troll", refers to the action. Akin to "nice move", or "nice comeback" as a form of speech. Trolling as a verb.

Note how even the grammar supports this. "Nice jerk" doesn't make much sense does it?

 
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I really tried my best not to comment, but my better judgement is losing out.

PLB: you, in this thread, are a troll. The definition fits your post perfectly. I'd link to Wikipedia or any other source, but I'm too lazy. NuMystic's additional definition that a troll is someone who is posting in a thread for the sole purpose of trolling, is just an example of a really bad blatant troll. The most common definition is met by your post. I don't see a lot of trolling on BGG so I made a quick comment about it, mostly because it's a tired old song that people sing, and it contributed nothing.

NuMystic, and now myself, are guilty of "feeding the troll". That is, we have in good faith, tried to clarify the situation, and merely given you trumped up ammunition (by your estimation) to retaliate against. This has allowed you to hijack this thread, thus fulfilling another mark of a troll. It is for this reason I attempted not to get re-involved after your first response to me, which pretty much missed any relevant points.

OP, I'm sorry that I helped contribute to the derailing of this thread. It was not my intent.

NuMystic, I don't intend to be picking on you at all, and in fact, appreciate your support and effort to help clarify the situation for PLB.

PLB, I will not be responding further. Feel free to reply and vindicate yourself in your own mind. However, I encourage you to learn something here. I'd also like to remind you that we are here to learn, teach, and enjoy the hobby of gaming. If you were local to me, I'd even suggest we sit down so you can help show me what I may have missed about Briefcase which might make it a better game for me.

Most importantly of all: happy gaming.
 
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Jerome Nivet
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So is it similar to Dominion or not??

Masterboy, did you get the chance to play Briefcase again lately?

Has your opinion changed somehow or not?

What exactly did you dislike so much in Briefcase?

I'm just curious to find out more about the game. Other people are invited in this discussion. Thanks
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