Recommend
11 
 Thumb up
 Hide
30 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Ora et Labora» Forums » General

Subject: What will be "fixed" in the next printing? ... (my wishlist) rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Chris Wood
United States
Darien
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
+1 to everything you just said
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Morse
United States
Powell
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You forgot to include the much-bemoaned counter sheet misprints and mispunches.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
…and the boxes with no cards in them.
…and the boxes with no production wheels in them.
…and other such oddities.

OK, fair enough, only the counter sheet issues have affected more than one [outspoken] person.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tadeu Zubaran
Brazil
Porto Alegre
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thumbsup

The current box would be big enough, when you look at it in the current state it is pretty much an empty box, with a few would be warped boards. You can put 3 or 4 copies of the game in its current state inside the box.

Good list, I would be buying the game as soon as this happen, actually just semi decent boards and fastening system would be enough for me, the other 2 would be a plus. Actualy Agricola quality boards is a pipedream at this stage, just decent would be enough.

I am pissed at Lookout and I am active in the huge whipping board that was formed in the geek (not big enough IMHO) but I have nothing against them. Before O&L I used them as the example of quality company. I am actually very happy with my copy of Agricola and Glory to Rome, I don't own Le Havre yet because it is sold out.

By Lookout responses here I am very, very skeptic about them making this happen. I actually think it is more likely that the next print run of Le Havre receives the same material and quality control O&L got.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Nelson
United States
Draper
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I had trouble punching the counters out on every board, but it was always in the same spot for each board - lower right. I messed up one is all, but it still annoyed me how hard they were.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clyde W
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Red Team
badge
#YOLO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I too am waiting on those things until I buy.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Duff
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
d10-1 Much thicker player boards(landscapes and plots included), agricola style would be ideal to me.

Not a chance. The boards are too thick already, leading to the warping problems. If anything, they'll get thinner to solve the warping problem. At most, you'll get the same thickness with the warping solved.

Quote:
d10-2 Separate player aids for ireland and france with the thickness of the current heartland player boards.

Possibly.

Quote:
d10-3 A better fastening system for the main game boards and spinners.

Possible. But I think unlikely, given the fork video and other solutions, and I suspect most people only play with one or two player counts.

Quote:
d10-4 Slightly improved card stock.

Extremely unlikely.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Foerster
United States
Charlotte
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Really, the issue with the wheels is pretty ridiculous. I mean, the wheel is printed as double-sided to accommodate four player counts (and also long and short games) and is thus should easily manage this. Either by including four arms (with the downside of the boards not laying flat) or by making the boards easily changeable.

Asking you to "fix" it with the thumbtack or the fork is sort of absurd, and presuming you're going to often play with just certain player counts almost equally so (the game DOES support 1-4, with long and short versions).

It was also pretty tough to cleanly punch.

Everything else I think is fine.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
DMSamuel
United States
Wurtsboro
New York
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
KissaTaikuri wrote:
d10-1 Much thicker player boards(landscapes and plots included), agricola style would be ideal to me.

Not a chance. The boards are too thick already, leading to the warping problems. If anything, they'll get thinner to solve the warping problem. At most, you'll get the same thickness with the warping solved.


I understand your reasoning, but...I don't know that I agree.

My Agricola boards haven't warped, so why should I assume boards of that thickness for Ora will warp?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tadeu Zubaran
Brazil
Porto Alegre
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lorddillon wrote:
UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
KissaTaikuri wrote:
d10-1 Much thicker player boards(landscapes and plots included), agricola style would be ideal to me.

Not a chance. The boards are too thick already, leading to the warping problems. If anything, they'll get thinner to solve the warping problem. At most, you'll get the same thickness with the warping solved.


I understand your reasoning, but...I don't know that I agree.

My Agricola boards haven't warped, so why should I assume boards of that thickness for Ora will warp?


He is not saying they will, I think I understand his point.

Lookout wont put quality components int this game, by the way things are going it is pretty clear by now, they slashed this one to the bone, they went to the length of cutting on a few scoring sheets and printed the player aids in toilet paper. Agricola boards are out of question.

So, established that Agricola quality boards are out of question I think he is saying that they can put die Burgen von Burgung style mats (for those who don't know it is just sheets of paper instead of boards), that would solve the warping problem, he made clear on other threads that to him this style of boards are good.

I think he actually may be right, not that this mats are acceptable, but that may be the "solution" Lookout finds for the warping. I personally, think they will just make another print run with the same components.

[edit]:
To be honest I don't think it would be wise for Lookout to put a quality version of O&L now.

When they released it they were unable or unwilling to put component quality on par with the industry recent top quality games, games that have top quality components and game play (Troyes, Trajan, Vinhos...) for the same price as O&L.

If they do it now there will be a huge backlash of people who bought the first print run of the game. The bad press of the component quality will fade, I think the worst passed actually, and the game sold out anyway. I am as sad as anyone as this could be one of my favorites but the most we will see is minor tweaks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Linneman
Canada
Vancouver
BC
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:

d10-1 Much thicker player boards(landscapes and plots included), agricola style would be ideal to me.


I agree this would be ideal, but since there are so many more landscape and plot boards than there are in Agricola, I consider it highly unlikely.

KissaTaikuri wrote:

d10-2 Separate player aids for ireland and france with the thickness of the current heartland player boards.


I've only seen the German player aids, which were spectacularly useless to me, and I played the game fine without them, so I would say this is not a necessity.

KissaTaikuri wrote:

d10-3 A better fastening system for the main game boards and spinners.


Enough components should be included so you don't have to disassemble them each time you want to play with a different player count, I agree.

KissaTaikuri wrote:

d10-4 Slightly improved card stock.

I'd be happy to pay the extra cost associated with these items, including a larger box if necessary.


Nothing I have ever seen from Lookout has indicated they have any intention of printing their cards on quality cardstock. In fact, it seems to be the norm in the Eurogaming industry to use terrible quality cardstock that requires sleeving if you expect more than a couple plays. The reason for this is plain--most Eurogames rarely receive over 5 plays before the next hotness hits the scene.

The only change I would expect in second edition would be properly cut punchsheets. Since the game comes with something like 400 chits, it was a nightmare to cut them all out with a craft knife. I do expect this to be fixed with the second printing, since it was a mistake in the first.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Lewis
United States
Bath
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess I got lucky because I didn't have any issues at all with the punch sheets.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hanno Girke
Germany
Schwabenheim an der Selz
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
Not looking to start a component flame war again here as there are already plenty, but was curious as to what is looking at being improved.

I got to play the game last night and it's an excellent game which I will purchase at some point. The components were serviceable but certainly lacking in comparison to other offerings. (I know it's been explained as to why this happened)

I'd like to see the following:

d10-1 Much thicker player boards(landscapes and plots included), agricola style would be ideal to me.


I spent a full day at the factory yesterday talking to pretty much everyone involved in the process.
The player boards won't be thicker, but they should notwarp. Compare to the player mats in the non-English versions of Glory to Rome - same size, same cardboard, but do not warp.

KissaTaikuri wrote:
d10-2 Separate player aids for ireland and france with the thickness of the current heartland player boards.


They'll be on thicker paper from now on, and we talked about cutting the sheet in half so players have FR and IRE separately. The're the production issue that they can't be assembled together with the rulebooks if they are different size, but they'll see what they can do here.

KissaTaikuri wrote:
d10-3 A better fastening system for the main game boards and spinners.


We'll probably use 3.5 mm bookscrews. A screwdriver will not be added to the box, though.

KissaTaikuri wrote:
d10-4 Slightly improved card stock.


Disrespecting popular belief, this is not at all bad cardstock, but pretty high tech stuff. Thin doesn't mean bad anymore.
We always order a certain card stock that is extra durable.

KissaTaikuri wrote:
I'd be happy to pay the extra cost associated with these items, including a larger box if necessary.

If none of this is going to happen then it'd be nice to know as I'd just pick up a copy now.
32 
 Thumb up
0.20
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hanno Girke
Germany
Schwabenheim an der Selz
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
KissaTaikuri wrote:
Thanks for the heads up Hanno. What's your best guess as to when the reprint should be available in the u.s.?


That's a question to ask ZMan Games. ;-)
But in the best case it's 6-8 weeks for production and 4-6 weeks for shipping. (Production takes that long as the wooden pieces factory works on demand and has long delivery time)
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tadeu Zubaran
Brazil
Porto Alegre
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hanno wrote:
The player boards won't be thicker, but they should notwarp. Compare to the player mats in the non-English versions of Glory to Rome - same size, same cardboard, but do not warp.

Fantastic, those are quality boards, and given the number of boards in the game they are a very reasonable solution

Hanno wrote:
They'll be on thicker paper from now on, and we talked about cutting the sheet in half so players have FR and IRE separately. The're the production issue that they can't be assembled together with the rulebooks if they are different size, but they'll see what they can do here.

If it goes through is much better but not a deal breaker.

Hanno wrote:
We'll probably use 3.5 mm bookscrews. A screwdriver will not be added to the box, though.

Fantastic

Hanno wrote:
Disrespecting popular belief, this is not at all bad cardstock.

Agreed

One very important question remains, will be there a way to differentiate the versions by the box?

If these changes go through I will be very happy to support the game and Lookout again.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How much of a pain will it be to disassemble/reassemble the spinners for different player counts? Could they simply be duplicated?

B>
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tadeu Zubaran
Brazil
Porto Alegre
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thepackrat wrote:
How much of a pain will it be to disassemble/reassemble the spinners for different player counts? Could they simply be duplicated?

B>


I think the wheel would get very unstable. I think their solution is not ideal but a very good one.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tucker Taylor
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Is your score positive? You win! (Some players win more than others.)
badge
A woman needs a man like a fish needs a saxophone.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As far as the player aids go, I'd be happy just having all of France on one side and all of Ireland on one side, rather than (France play-ref + Ireland play-ref) on one side and (France building ref + Ireland building ref) on the other. Annoying to have to flip back and forth and ignore the usable space where there's irrelevant information.

I, of course, already have my copy, and am reasonably happy with it, and am exceedingly unlikely to buy a second, but still.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hanno Girke
Germany
Schwabenheim an der Selz
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tkzubaran wrote:

One very important question remains, will be there a way to differentiate the versions by the box?


Yes. Each charge of games should have a distincitve label now, next to the bar code. At least for the German editions. If the last 2 digits are 12, it should be a 2012 printing.
(You can also check for the copyright disclaimer. If it says 2011-2012, it's a 2012 version.)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tkzubaran wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
How much of a pain will it be to disassemble/reassemble the spinners for different player counts? Could they simply be duplicated?

B>


I think the wheel would get very unstable. I think their solution is not ideal but a very good one.


More wheels entirely, not a thing on the back of the current wheel.

B>
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ode.
Germany
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tkzubaran wrote:
thumbsup

The current box would be big enough, when you look at it in the current state it is pretty much an empty box, with a few would be warped boards. You can put 3 or 4 copies of the game in its current state inside the box.



That is not true. You must think about the filling of the box after production. The cardboard sheets for the counters are very thick. Adding playerboards (landscapes and so...) with the same material like in agricola would be too much for the box.

I don't know how to say this in english:

Wenn du die ganzen Landschaften auch noch auf Stanzbögen wie die Spielpläne in Agricola machen wolltest, wäre die Box zu klein. Allein die Marken sind schon auf 6 (!!!) Stanzbögen. Es kämen sicherlich nochmal so viele, wenn nicht mehr, hinzu, wenn man das so wie vorgeschlagen machen würde. Wenn alles ausgepöppelt ist, ist natürlich wieder jede Menge Platz in der Box, aber du musst auch bedenken, wie es mit dem restlichen Material auf Stanzbögen wäre, wenn das Spiel produziert wird.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That's a fair point. The size of all the unpunched stuff (with the large number needed for this game) wouldn't fit entirely in the box.

I will say, though, that some companies actually have the box lid not fully closed when they ship the unpunched sheets in it, so that the box is the right size afterwards.

B>
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tadeu Zubaran
Brazil
Porto Alegre
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bayerbube wrote:
tkzubaran wrote:
thumbsup

The current box would be big enough, when you look at it in the current state it is pretty much an empty box, with a few would be warped boards. You can put 3 or 4 copies of the game in its current state inside the box.



That is not true. You must think about the filling of the box after production. The cardboard sheets for the counters are very thick. Adding playerboards (landscapes and so...) with the same material like in agricola would be too much for the box.

I don't know how to say this in english:

Wenn du die ganzen Landschaften auch noch auf Stanzbögen wie die Spielpläne in Agricola machen wolltest, wäre die Box zu klein. Allein die Marken sind schon auf 6 (!!!) Stanzbögen. Es kämen sicherlich nochmal so viele, wenn nicht mehr, hinzu, wenn man das so wie vorgeschlagen machen würde. Wenn alles ausgepöppelt ist, ist natürlich wieder jede Menge Platz in der Box, aber du musst auch bedenken, wie es mit dem restlichen Material auf Stanzbögen wäre, wenn das Spiel produziert wird.


Vielleicht Sie sind richtig.
It is a moot point as far as I am concerned. If Hanno's announced improvements go through, and I have no reason to think they wont, I have no more problems with the game and will gladly buy it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tadeu Zubaran
Brazil
Porto Alegre
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thepackrat wrote:
tkzubaran wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
How much of a pain will it be to disassemble/reassemble the spinners for different player counts? Could they simply be duplicated?

B>


I think the wheel would get very unstable. I think their solution is not ideal but a very good one.


More wheels entirely, not a thing on the back of the current wheel.

B>


Oh that would be ideal, but then I don't think the price point could be sustained.

I would be willing to pay what I payed for the special edition of Puerto Rico for this game to have this, super thick landscape, pimped workers and so on, but I think it is unreasonable for us to ask such a thing.

I assume they know the market well enough that if there were demand for such a production I think they would be providing it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Nelson
United States
Draper
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This remind me of FRED's Through the Ages problems.
So, those with 1st edition boxes are not getting the "fixes", and have live with what we have unless we fork out more cash for the new version?
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Conrad
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Is there a way that people who have purchased the initial printing can get some of the improved components, particularly the landscapes?
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.