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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Some more Rules questions (Naalu, Yssaril, Promissory) rss

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Brennan M
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Hey all,

I have some more questions that arose in our latest game.

1) Naalu player had a representative whose effect targeted the 'current player.' (I can't remember which card it was, and I don't have it handy. How do we tell who the 'current' player is? Speaker token? Political card? The naalu have no spies so it couldn't be a targeted player.

2) The Yssaril player used his abilities to take our Ghosts' player action cards. His ability requires that he keeps the content of the cards to himself, correct? Or is he able to read them aloud to the other players? (I left the room to use the bathroom, and when I came back the Yssaril player was doing so, I told him that was not what he was allowed to do, but pointed out on the race sheet it never explicitly stated that.)

3) When 2 parties make a promise over Promissory notes, is the promise literally unbreakable until the card is used OR do the promissory notes get returned if said promise is broken? Or is it in fact possible to completely lie to get promissory notes from players but then break said promises.

Thanks again!
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Scott Lewis
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DanPyre wrote:
1) Naalu player had a representative whose effect targeted the 'current player.' (I can't remember which card it was, and I don't have it handy. How do we tell who the 'current' player is? Speaker token? Political card? The naalu have no spies so it couldn't be a targeted player.

The "current player" is the person who's turn it is; IE, the person who used the Strategic Action to activate Political/Assembly.

Quote:
2) The Yssaril player used his abilities to take our Ghosts' player action cards. His ability requires that he keeps the content of the cards to himself, correct? Or is he able to read them aloud to the other players? (I left the room to use the bathroom, and when I came back the Yssaril player was doing so, I told him that was not what he was allowed to do, but pointed out on the race sheet it never explicitly stated that.)

He can do whatever he wants with that information; freely share it, keep it to himself, sell it, whatever. A wise Yssaril player would probably do the latter - offer to sell the information (unless the other player is close to winning, in which case making the information free is maybe in everyone's best interest).

IE - yes, he can tell anyone he wants, whenever he wants, and can ask for any (legal) compensation in return.

Quote:
3) When 2 parties make a promise over Promissory notes, is the promise literally unbreakable until the card is used OR do the promissory notes get returned if said promise is broken? Or is it in fact possible to completely lie to get promissory notes from players but then break said promises.

If you give away one of your Promissory Notes, it is set in stone; if the other player chooses to exercise it, you MUST do what the card says, even if you don't want to - it's not optional or breakable. Indeed, that's the whole point of the card - a binding, unbreakable deal.

If you aren't willing to commit to that, of course nothing stops you from making informal promises without giving away a card.
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Simon Bourigault
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1 ) Strictly speaking, the current player is the guy who play the Assembly (or Political) strategy card.

2 ) Well, it's subtle. The Yssaril can look at the cards. Then, if he wants to share his knowledge, that's up to him. The others will have to decide whether they trust him or not...

3 ) A promissory note is given during the political phase. A player who receive a PN has the VOTE the way he promised to. HAS TO. Any other agreement is not biding.

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Scott Lewis
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Simboubou wrote:

3 ) A promissory note is given during the political phase. A player who receive a PN has the VOTE the way he promised to. HAS TO. Any other agreement is not biding.


Well, the receiver must vote the way he promised, but the other party must also honor the effects printed on the card itself when the receiver elects to use it.
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Stephen Williams
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DanPyre wrote:

2) The Yssaril player used his abilities to take our Ghosts' player action cards. His ability requires that he keeps the content of the cards to himself, correct? Or is he able to read them aloud to the other players? (I left the room to use the bathroom, and when I came back the Yssaril player was doing so, I told him that was not what he was allowed to do, but pointed out on the race sheet it never explicitly stated that.)


The only piece of information a player is explicitly not allowed to share is his secret objective. Revealing that before you claim it forfeits the card.

Everything else is fair game. You can say whatever you like, true or false, about any other cards you legally have the right to look at. You can even show cards to other players to prove you're not lying, if you want. That such cards should be kept secret is implied by common gaming logic (cards are usually secret unless explicitly made public), but there's not actually a rule against sharing.
 
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Steve Williams
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DanPyre wrote:

1) How do we tell who the 'current' player is?

The one who flipped political/assembly, as stated by Scott et all.
DanPyre wrote:

2) Or is he able to read them aloud to the other players?

He can, but that's super lame. Bribe! Bribe bribe bribe! "If you're good at something, never do it for free." The professional thing to do here is text the info to anyone who offers you X trade goods...
DanPyre wrote:

3) Or is it in fact possible to completely lie to get promissory notes from players but then break said promises.


We were playing with a house rule that let promissory notes be given for things other than voting. Since it gets kind of ambiguous to enforce some agreements, I've since modified this house rule to require the agreement to be immediately enforceable. Agreements that impact the future such as "Stay out of these systems" or "Attack Bobamelius for the rest of the game" aren't valid for promissory notes, but "Give me X trade goods" or "Flip Production now" or "Don't flip Tech yet" are valid.

In the base game, before Shards came out, Trade Goods and Verbal Agreements were the only source of bribes, and per the rulebook you can lie through your teeth and backstab away as these are non-binding agreements. The problem was that people hardly ever trusted one another, and nobody wanted to lose trade goods in addition to having the vote go against them. So Promissory Notes got introduced as binding agreements to ensure debate stayed interesting.
 
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Greycloak
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It's a bit of a nitpick but actually the rules state:

"A player is not allowed to show other players his Secret Objective Card until he is able to meet its objectives during the first step of the Status Phase. A player who reveals his Secret Objective Card without being able to meet its requirements loses his Secret Objective Card, which is placed back in the box. Such a player will not be able to receive victory points from a Secret Objective for the duration of the game."

So there's actually nothing against a player saying "My Secret Objective is X" even if he is telling the truth. He just can't flip it over unless he qualifies, and in doing so, he better qualify. I've seen a at least one game where the player misread the objective, flipped it over tried to claim it, and then realized his mistake after it was too late.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Well, that comes down to what is meant by "revealed", as one could argue that saying it would qualify. But I agree with you, unless you actually show it, you aren't revealing it (because otherwise, you could argue down a slippery slope of "well, he was obviously going for wormholes, he revealed it through his lack of subterfuge."
 
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