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Subject: Fortifications and flanking penalty rss

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Michael
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I am not sure how the fortifications work so here my question:

For example like on page 5 of the rulebook Zlobin is attacked from 2 different sides. The primary attack comes from the north (no fortification) and the flanking attack comes from the east(fortification). According to the rules

"Defending blocks ignore one flanking penalty (7.34) and lose one less
Strength Point (SP) during battle if all attacks come from fortified directions."

no flanking penalty can be ignored AND you won't get the one less Strength Point bonus because not all attacks come from fortified directions.

Is this correct? If yes, what is the point in having cities which have a fortification just against one side? One attack would always be from one unfortified direction!

Thanks in advance for your help


 
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Justus Pendleton
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This clarifies:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/7117009#7117009

You always get the -1 SP.

Cities with fortifications in only one direction will never get the flanking bonus. Cities with fortifications in multiple directions may.
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Michael
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thank you for the link and the clarification!
 
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James Palmer
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You are correct. But fortifications also reduce your SP loss by one, so cities with only one route fortified still help if attacked from that direction only.

(EDIT: I really needed to hit refresh before answering, haha! Oh well.)
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Michael
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well not entirely true. a fortification always gives -1 SP to the defender no matter from where the attack comes.

This is the definition of the designer if you follow the link above.

Quote:
A fortification ALWAYS negates 1SP loss in battle, it will only negate 1 flank bonus if ALL attacks are coming across a Fortified direction. Yes, there are several fortified cities which only have one direction fortified, these locations would not be able to negate a flank bonus. The defend order works like the fortification but it always negates 1 flank bonus and allows you to ignore 1SP loss. Keep in mind that these each negate at most 1 flank bonus, the attacker receives 1 flank bonus for each additional area they attack from. For example, attacking from 4 directions would allow 3 flanking bonuses.



thanks for your reply!
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James Palmer
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One of the attacks has to be coming through the fortification for it to give the -1 SP for a bonus. If no attack comes through the fortification, it does not give the defender any advantage.
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Michael
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hmm.. ok. makes sense but why is the quote not telling the same. it just says a fortification will always give the -1 SP bonus. I think the wording could be chosen better or maybe I have taken it out of context.

I guess I'll play the way you suggest because it makes thematically sense to be protected only if at least one attack comes from a fortified side.
 
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Harvey Mossman
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noticeus wrote:
hmm.. ok. makes sense but why is the quote not telling the same. it just says a fortification will always give the -1 SP bonus. I think the wording could be chosen better or maybe I have taken it out of context.

I guess I'll play the way you suggest because it makes thematically sense to be protected only if at least one attack comes from a fortified side.


Perhaps a better wording to help you understand is that Any attack that comes across a fortification gives -1SP loss to the defender. Only if all attacks come across the fortification, can you neagate one Flank Bonus. If no attacks come across the fortification, then there is no -1SP to the defender and no negating one Flank Bonus.
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Michael
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Excellent! That's the best wording i've read so far And it explaines everything clearly.

Thank you!
 
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John Jackson
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I don't think that 'Any attack that comes across a fortification gives -1SP loss to the defender.' is correct. I believe that the -1SP also requires that all the attacks cross a fortification side.

From the rules:

1.2 Fortifications
Some areas give defending
blocks an advantage. These
areas have a fortification
symbol facing specific roads
and rails....

And then the text on the graphic to the right has:

A fortification
advantage is
not given if
any part of the
attack comes
from unfortified
directions.


I believe that the word 'Advantage' refers to both a -1SP and a flank-penalty negation.

Just my 2 cents.
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James Palmer
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That was my original thought too (and how I originally answered the question), but the note from the designer seems to say differently. I will look into this further and report back.


EDIT: I spoke to Uwe and he clarified here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/675350/some-questions-an...

All attacks must come across the fortification for any of its bonuses to be utilized.
 
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Harvey Mossman
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ajax2647 wrote:
I don't think that 'Any attack that comes across a fortification gives -1SP loss to the defender.' is correct. I believe that the -1SP also requires that all the attacks cross a fortification side.

From the rules:

1.2 Fortifications
Some areas give defending
blocks an advantage. These
areas have a fortification
symbol facing specific roads
and rails....

And then the text on the graphic to the right has:

A fortification
advantage is
not given if
any part of the
attack comes
from unfortified
directions.


I believe that the word 'Advantage' refers to both a -1SP and a flank-penalty negation.

Just my 2 cents.


No, one of the designers,Brian Bennett clarified that in the BGG post above. You always get the -1 SP to the Defender if ANY attack comes across a fortification. You are correct in that the rules don't say that but this is the designer's change. See the link quoted above.
 
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Justus Pendleton
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ajax2647 wrote:
I don't think that 'Any attack that comes across a fortification gives -1SP loss to the defender.' is correct. I believe that the -1SP also requires that all the attacks cross a fortification side.

From the rules:

....

I believe that the word 'Advantage' refers to both a -1SP and a flank-penalty negation.


You didn't actually clink the link I provided, did you?
 
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John Jackson
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Guilty as charged!
 
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C Sandifer
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Note that Uwe Eickert posted this yesterday in another thread:

I wish to clarify that the following is incorrect.

'4)A fortification ALWAYS negates 1SP loss in battle, it will only negate 1 flank bonus if ALL attacks are coming across a Fortified direction.'

Tom was correct in his interpretation of the rules. All attacks must cross a fortification in order to negate 1SP loss in battle.
Uwe


I haven't followed this thread closely enough to know if this adds or subtracts from the conversation, though.
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Justus Pendleton
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Thanks for posting that. Looks like John is right!
 
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Michael
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och.........

now it's getting confusing again!!!

who can tell me the reason why there are cities with only one road fortifications. Does this mean that such a city gives you a -1 SP bonus if you are only attacked from the fortified side but gives you nothing (no -1 SP bonus and no flanking) when attackt from 2 sides?

I guess that must be it but otherwise I have no clue anymore.

thanks for all your comments!
 
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James Palmer
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noticeus wrote:
Does this mean that such a city gives you a -1 SP bonus if you are only attacked from the fortified side but gives you nothing (no -1 SP bonus and no flanking) when attackt from 2 sides?


Yes, this is correct.
 
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Michael
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finally I got it!

thanks to all of you!

 
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