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Subject: Considering the following Mythos card variant... rss

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Chris J Davis
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Some players I've played with have commented that they don't like how Mythos cards work, for a couple of reasons:

1) They interrupt the flow of the game; they would prefer that the investigators get to take their turns uninterrupted, without the keeper playing cards on them simply for passing through a room.

2) The cards are often unthematic when played this way. Why would the investigator player be told that they are opening cupboards or feeling claustrophobic in a room that they are just passing through?

So I was thinking of the following changes to how Mythos cards are played:

Unless the Mythos card specifies a specific time when it should be played (i.e, "Play when an investigator attempts to cast a spell...", etc), the keeper may now play Mythos cards only:

1) During his own turn. All requirements on the card must still be fulfilled, and the keeper spends threat to play the card, as usual. Only one Mythos card may be played on each investigator during the keeper's turn.

2) At the beginning of an Explore action. Again, requirements must be fulfilled, but the keeper gets to play the card for free. One card may be played at the beginning of each Explore action (regardless of whether that investigator had a Mythos card played on him/her during the keeper's turn, or whether the investigator somehow receives more than one Explore action in a turn). The effects of the Mythos card are carried out before any exploration cards in the room are revealed. If the effects of the Mythos card mean that the room can then not be explored (for example, the Mythos card makes the investigator gain a horror, followed by a Panic trauma, meaning the investigator is no longer in the room), the Explore action is still considered spent.

Thoughts?

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Jon Dennis
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Seems pretty harsh for investigators, especially given that you aren't making the Keeper spend threat. Wouldn't it make more sense to change the flavor text to something more appropriate for that particular room? Seems like you're looking for a mechanical solution to a thematic problem.
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Chris J Davis
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macgowan wrote:
Seems pretty harsh for investigators, especially given that you aren't making the Keeper spend threat. Wouldn't it make more sense to change the flavor text to something more appropriate for that particular room? Seems like you're looking for a mechanical solution to a thematic problem.


Really? I was thinking that without the threat discount, it would make it a hell of a lot easier on the investigators, which is why I put the threat discount in there to balance it out.

The mechanical problem is the constant interrupting during the players' turns. No amount of editing flavour text will fix that.
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Roberta Yang
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I'm not a big fan of this variant, for several reasons:

1) Costs of Mythos cards are important. Sure, occasionally being able to play a 1-threat Mythos for 0 wouldn't break the game, but regularly playing all Mythos cards, including the 2-Threat Mythos and the even more expensive ones from Forbidden Alchemy, is a very significant advantage.

2) You're still interrupting Investigators' turns anyhow.

3) A lot of Mythos cards are designed based on the assumption that the Investigator can decide what to do after they are played. For example, one of them places a Cultist in the room. Now, under these new rules, the Investigator will immediately forced to explore and make an Evade check.

4) Conversely, a lot of Mythos cards are designed based on the assumption that the Keeper can play them when it is most convenient. Where's the Door? suddenly becomes very weak if it can only be used during the Keeper's turn (when it has no effect) or when an Investigator explores (when it often has no effect and in any case probably isn't that urgent anyhow).

5) You're making Investigators lose Actions, in a game where Investigators already have a very simplistic role with not many decisions to make. That, to me, is a deal-breaker.
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Chris J Davis
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salty53 wrote:
I'm not a big fan of this variant, for several reasons:

1) Costs of Mythos cards are important. Sure, occasionally being able to play a 1-threat Mythos for 0 wouldn't break the game, but regularly playing all Mythos cards, including the 2-Threat Mythos and the even more expensive ones from Forbidden Alchemy, is a very significant advantage.


I'm not convinced that 'regular' will be as regular as you might think. Each room will typically only be explored once, and it often won't be the investigator you want to play the Mythos card on who will be doing the exploring. So most often you will still be paying the cost anyway.

Quote:
2) You're still interrupting Investigators' turns anyhow.


Yes, but it's not the annoying 'STOP!' form of interrupting, which is what my players were objecting to.

Quote:
3) A lot of Mythos cards are designed based on the assumption that the Investigator can decide what to do after they are played. For example, one of them places a Cultist in the room. Now, under these new rules, the Investigator will immediately forced to explore and make an Evade check.


I think these are edge cases. Most Mythos cards don't have these types of effects. Though the timing on the evade check is an interesting issue. Should the investigator still be forced to make an evade check even though they have already declared their action?

Quote:
4) Conversely, a lot of Mythos cards are designed based on the assumption that the Keeper can play them when it is most convenient. Where's the Door? suddenly becomes very weak if it can only be used during the Keeper's turn (when it has no effect) or when an Investigator explores (when it often has no effect and in any case probably isn't that urgent anyhow).


Obviously, any cards that state 'this turn' now instead refer to the upcoming turn if played during the keeper's turn.

Quote:
5) You're making Investigators lose Actions, in a game where Investigators already have a very simplistic role with not many decisions to make. That, to me, is a deal-breaker.


I think the effect would be minimal. Apart from the fact that I think Mythos-on-Explore won't be as common as you think, there's also the fact that under the original rules I could have done exactly the same thing anyway (i.e, play the Mythos card before the investigator explores, causing a loss in sanity, making the investigator run three spaces, meaning they can no longer explore the room), which could just have easily rendered there investigator's action useless. Though I would agree that out of the points you've made, this one would be of the biggest concern to me.

I'm going to be having a big MoM marathon this coming weekend and will try this out. Will report back on how it goes.
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Nicola Zee
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Some players I've played with have commented that they don't like how Mythos cards work, for a couple of reasons:

1) They interrupt the flow of the game; they would prefer that the investigators get to take their turns uninterrupted, without the keeper playing cards on them simply for passing through a room.

2) The cards are often unthematic when played this way. Why would the investigator player be told that they are opening cupboards or feeling claustrophobic in a room that they are just passing through?

So I was thinking of the following changes to how Mythos cards are played:

Unless the Mythos card specifies a specific time when it should be played (i.e, "Play when an investigator attempts to cast a spell...", etc), the keeper may now play Mythos cards only:

1) During his own turn. All requirements on the card must still be fulfilled, and the keeper spends threat to play the card, as usual. Only one Mythos card may be played on each investigator during the keeper's turn.

2) At the beginning of an Explore action. Again, requirements must be fulfilled, but the keeper gets to play the card for free. One card may be played at the beginning of each Explore action (regardless of whether that investigator had a Mythos card played on him/her during the keeper's turn, or whether the investigator somehow receives more than one Explore action in a turn). The effects of the Mythos card are carried out before any exploration cards in the room are revealed. If the effects of the Mythos card mean that the room can then not be explored (for example, the Mythos card makes the investigator gain a horror, followed by a Panic trauma, meaning the investigator is no longer in the room), the Explore action is still considered spent.

Thoughts?


I also did not like the way mythos cards interrupt the flow of the game.
I do the following minimal change. The only very subtle difference to the offical rules is that the keeper plays cards before the investigator's take their turns.

The Investigator Players decide their Order of Play
The players decide (between themselves) who will go first, second, and so on.

The Keeper plays Mythos Cards
The keeper may play one Mythos card on each investigator.

The Investigator Players take their turns
The keeper may play one Mythos Card immediately after an investigator’s Movement or Action step.
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Chris J Davis
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Nicola Zee wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Some players I've played with have commented that they don't like how Mythos cards work, for a couple of reasons:

1) They interrupt the flow of the game; they would prefer that the investigators get to take their turns uninterrupted, without the keeper playing cards on them simply for passing through a room.

2) The cards are often unthematic when played this way. Why would the investigator player be told that they are opening cupboards or feeling claustrophobic in a room that they are just passing through?

So I was thinking of the following changes to how Mythos cards are played:

Unless the Mythos card specifies a specific time when it should be played (i.e, "Play when an investigator attempts to cast a spell...", etc), the keeper may now play Mythos cards only:

1) During his own turn. All requirements on the card must still be fulfilled, and the keeper spends threat to play the card, as usual. Only one Mythos card may be played on each investigator during the keeper's turn.

2) At the beginning of an Explore action. Again, requirements must be fulfilled, but the keeper gets to play the card for free. One card may be played at the beginning of each Explore action (regardless of whether that investigator had a Mythos card played on him/her during the keeper's turn, or whether the investigator somehow receives more than one Explore action in a turn). The effects of the Mythos card are carried out before any exploration cards in the room are revealed. If the effects of the Mythos card mean that the room can then not be explored (for example, the Mythos card makes the investigator gain a horror, followed by a Panic trauma, meaning the investigator is no longer in the room), the Explore action is still considered spent.

Thoughts?


I also did not like the way mythos cards interrupt the flow of the game.
I do the following minimal change. The only very subtle difference to the offical rules is that the keeper plays cards before the investigator's take their turns.

The Investigator Players decide their Order of Play
The players decide (between themselves) who will go first, second, and so on.

The Keeper plays Mythos Cards
The keeper may play one Mythos card on each investigator.

The Investigator Players take their turns
The keeper may play one Mythos Card immediately after an investigator’s Movement or Action step.


What is the difference between this and the official rules (apart from that the investigators decide the order of their turns beforehand)?
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Nicola Zee
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Nicola Zee wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Some players I've played with have commented that they don't like how Mythos cards work, for a couple of reasons:

1) They interrupt the flow of the game; they would prefer that the investigators get to take their turns uninterrupted, without the keeper playing cards on them simply for passing through a room.

2) The cards are often unthematic when played this way. Why would the investigator player be told that they are opening cupboards or feeling claustrophobic in a room that they are just passing through?

So I was thinking of the following changes to how Mythos cards are played:

Unless the Mythos card specifies a specific time when it should be played (i.e, "Play when an investigator attempts to cast a spell...", etc), the keeper may now play Mythos cards only:

1) During his own turn. All requirements on the card must still be fulfilled, and the keeper spends threat to play the card, as usual. Only one Mythos card may be played on each investigator during the keeper's turn.

2) At the beginning of an Explore action. Again, requirements must be fulfilled, but the keeper gets to play the card for free. One card may be played at the beginning of each Explore action (regardless of whether that investigator had a Mythos card played on him/her during the keeper's turn, or whether the investigator somehow receives more than one Explore action in a turn). The effects of the Mythos card are carried out before any exploration cards in the room are revealed. If the effects of the Mythos card mean that the room can then not be explored (for example, the Mythos card makes the investigator gain a horror, followed by a Panic trauma, meaning the investigator is no longer in the room), the Explore action is still considered spent.

Thoughts?


I also did not like the way mythos cards interrupt the flow of the game.
I do the following minimal change. The only very subtle difference to the offical rules is that the keeper plays cards before the investigator's take their turns.

The Investigator Players decide their Order of Play
The players decide (between themselves) who will go first, second, and so on.

The Keeper plays Mythos Cards
The keeper may play one Mythos card on each investigator.

The Investigator Players take their turns
The keeper may play one Mythos Card immediately after an investigator’s Movement or Action step.


What is the difference between this and the official rules (apart from that the investigators decide the order of their turns beforehand)?


The difference is subtle but helps to speed up play.

In the official rules, each investigator starts their turn and (just before they move) the keeper may have to stop them in order to play a Mythos Card.

In the variant, the keeper plays the Mythos cards before any of the investigators take their turns. Using this variant, in practise most Mythos cards end up played at this time. The effect is almost the same as playing the cards at the end of the keeper's turn.
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Chris J Davis
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Nicola Zee wrote:
The Investigator Players take their turns
The keeper may play one Mythos Card immediately after an investigator’s Movement or Action step.


But doesn't this part just make it the same, with the same interruptions?
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Yuriy Matuhno
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I'm personally playing mythos card facedown on the board, according to all placement specifications, sometimes even shuffle them inbetween of explorations cards, so player recevies them as a part of exploration.
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Nicola Zee
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Nicola Zee wrote:
The Investigator Players take their turns
The keeper may play one Mythos Card immediately after an investigator’s Movement or Action step.


But doesn't this part just make it the same, with the same interruptions?


Yes, It does not eliminate the issue but it does helps. I always try to do a fix that is the smallest change I can come up with.

In practise, most cards will be played before the start of the investigator's turns and after an action.
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You could redesign the cards so that they fit the variant system you're using.

I haven't had problems interrupting players, but I don't have many Mythos cards in my hand (they're actually face up and players don't look) at any time. What's the strategy behind Mythos cards? Are you implying that you have a large hand of them and are playing the cards often? TIA for your answer.
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Chris J Davis
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Sam and Max wrote:
You could redesign the cards so that they fit the variant system you're using.


I'm considering redesigning some-to-all of the Mythos cards, but unfortunately I don't really have time for it at the moment.

Quote:
I haven't had problems interrupting players, but I don't have many Mythos cards in my hand (they're actually face up and players don't look) at any time. What's the strategy behind Mythos cards? Are you implying that you have a large hand of them and are playing the cards often? TIA for your answer.


I normally have a full hand of Mythos cards, especially towards the beginning of the game.

What does 'TIA' mean?
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Chris J Davis
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We used this variant in our game today and it seemed to work just fine. I only had the opportunity to play a card on an exploring investigator maybe twice in the whole game and saved myself a total of 2-3 threat. Hardly game-breaking, and it did make the game flow much smoother.
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