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Subject: GG rewards for reviews are pretty low rss

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Nate Rethorn
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I know this has been talked about before, and I'm not railing against GeekMod, but the last several reviews I published have received under 2 GG each. The latest, found here, was awarded 1.9 GG. I'm not hurting for GeekGold, but to me that seems pretty low for something that I spent an hour and a half on this afternoon writing and editing.

I've been a long-time user of this site, so please don't think this is anything more than an observation/mild complaint. I know that when I GeekMod, my default for a review is 4 or 5 GG unless it's extremely short. I guess I'm just curious why people give a review 1 GG. It takes a lot longer to work on one of these than it does to upload fifty images of the same game/different components. If I were a new user looking to contribute to the site, it's far easier for me to do a lot of image uploads than it is to write reviews. Shouldn't that be rewarded appropriately?
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I recommend putting some images in your reviews, it will give them more pop. And if you upload those images yourself, well that will increase your geekgold takeaway.
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The review / photo upload has always been out of proportion, and with cell phone cameras it's getting worse. If you're trying to earn GG, it's a poor way to go.
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Rob Doupe
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I don't chase geekgold. However, I find the meagre award for text reviews to be off-putting. It implies they aren't valued much.

Unfortunately, this site is becoming more and more geared towards videos and photos. A lacklustre video review yields far more prominence, geekgold, and thumbs than the best-written text reviews.

But I suppose that's what the users want.
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I can scan and read a review for useful information much faster than a video. Videos are often at least five minutes long, and up to twenty minutes, that is simply too much time.
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Nate Rethorn
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I think images in a review can be very useful under the right conditions. If you're describing the components of a game, if you're showing a sample turn, or if you want to explain how something works then adding a good image is helpful. But I don't think throwing something in for its own sake is necessarily better. For the most part, I don't write reviews that summarize the rules or go over components. I'm writing about why I think a game is good or bad, and I don't think images add that much value. I'm not against them--they're just unnecessary.

Having said that, it does seem to be the case that the flashy reviews get the most attention; and video reviews are the hottest thing around. I'm still amazed that people actually check "1 GG" when approving a review. It seems fairly ridiculous to me.
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emperorhand wrote:
I'm still amazed that people actually check "1 GG" when approving a review. It seems fairly ridiculous to me.


Heh-heh, yup. Never ceases to amaze me either. How on Earth can people be tight with virtual money? It's not even their virtual money. That said, this hearkens back to the old argument that the amounts shown as reward for content need to change upwards, and its (perfectly true) counter-argument that that will result in rather large amounts of junk swimming through...
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Mrs. Kristin L. Johansen
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When I GeekMod I give more for many reasons, but I do not default to a whopping 4 or 5. I feel that should be earned. Sometimes I see reviews with only a handful of sentences. I don't learn much, I'm not interested, and I end up feeling as if my time is wasted. But I up the for things that are an 'appropriate' length and are interesting, well-written, easy to understand, etc. For an average submission, I give 3 or maybe 4 depending on how much work seems to have gone into it. I don't consider pictures to be worth much of an increase because taking and uploading a picture takes little time and effort compared to writing a great article. I usually give bonuses for interesting and funny, and I save the 5 option for those reviews, articles, reports, etc., that make me go "Wow!"
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If you think that's bad, you should see the GG you get for files! I can spend several days of my free time working on a high quality player aid and get 2 or 3 gold for it.

Photos are the way to go if you want to generate fast GG. You can put up pretty much anything and it will get through. Sad since I see a lot of very marginal or useless pics come through all the time. If they want to rebalance the economy they should probably lower pic GG to .25 each.

You basically have to do it for the fun of helping the hobby and not for the reward. If I didn't enjoy doing player aids and graphic redesigns I wouldn't do them. It's fun for me and any reward I get is just a nice little bonus.
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Paul Hackman
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I've done two HD video reviews that took up probably 5-6 hours of time each and received 1 GG for each. I didn't even know it was possible to receive more than 1 GG for something until reading this thread.
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Tomello Visello
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One aspect that always bothers me about threads like this is the frequent reliance on how much "time" the submission took. Time is not a measure of quality or utility. Time alone should not be the justification for raising the reward rate.

Next time you finish reading a review, go back to top and find the divide where the text stopped explaining the rules and switched to a true discussion of how/why the gameplay matters. The latter may be as little as a single sentence effectively saying, "it pleases me". I don't feel much informed..



Lots of words does not equate to lots of quality. Even with pictures.

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Pete Belli
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The true measure of a review's "success" might be the amount of discussion it generates plus the number of thumbs it receives.

There is no logical pattern to the GG honorarium provided by the BGG system.

About your review of the Mr. Jack Extension...

It is well written and thoughtfully presented. As a previous contributor mentioned, a couple of images would help to break up the text. I like the use of color in the different sections.

What about the broader considerations?

The review describes an expansion to a popular game, but this BGG forum already contained a number of reviews of the Mr. Jack Extension package. I'm not pretending that the GeekModders took the time to scan the game's page here on BGG to view previous contributions for this title. However, when I read a review of a "common" game I expect sizzle or something flashy, since so much has already been written about the product.
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emperorhand wrote:
I know this has been talked about before, and I'm not railing against GeekMod, but the last several reviews I published have received under 2 GG each. The latest, found here, was awarded 1.9 GG. I'm not hurting for GeekGold, but to me that seems pretty low for something that I spent an hour and a half on this afternoon writing and editing.


To me that review would be about a 3, so 1.9 doesn't seem jarringly low to me as reviews go. (If you spent an hour and a half on it you still have a better hours-to-GG ratio than I have on my reviews.)

emperorhand wrote:
I guess I'm just curious why people give a review 1 GG.


I simply assume that the full range of rewards is there to be used, so a short review with no analysis gets 1 and a long, well disposed and polished review can get 5.

emperorhand wrote:
It takes a lot longer to work on one of these than it does to upload fifty images of the same game/different components. If I were a new user looking to contribute to the site, it's far easier for me to do a lot of image uploads than it is to write reviews. Shouldn't that be rewarded appropriately?


This is true, and, as you say, has been talked about many times before. Really addressing this would require bigger (and more impopular) changes than upping the rewards for individual reviews by a few GG.

frumpish wrote:
I recommend putting some images in your reviews, it will give them more pop. And if you upload those images yourself, well that will increase your geekgold takeaway.


Although I would add that if those pictures do not add anything to the public gallery even in the absence of the review, they should be uploaded to a personal gallery.

Sica wrote:
Never ceases to amaze me either. How on Earth can people be tight with virtual money?


Well, I think that misses the point of why there is virtual money in the first place and why it's used for stepped rewards. If users decided that the real purpose of clicking the 5 is to spread maximum monies among the populace, then the system no longer serves its intended purpose and could be removed or replaced with an automatic GG dispenser.

pete belli wrote:
The true measure of a review's "success" might be the amount of discussion it generates plus the number of thumbs it receives.


Or just the number of people reading a review with interest or amusement, although that's difficult or impossible to know. Sometimes you find yourself reading about Civil War performance evaluations and hypotheticals and enjoying it despite having no knowledge on the subject nor any complementary remarks to offer. Often it seems like the reviews that cause the longest threads are negative reviews which have been calculated to create just such a reaction.
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I would have personally given you a 3GG maybe 4GG, but it does not really matter at this point.
(I quickly skimmed it and did not do a thorough evaluation since I'm not modding it.)

Nobody should be doing reviews for GG, its nothing more than a nice gesture to say thank you, and the the amount of thanks depends of length, quality, observations made, information imparted, and images to help clarify when appropriate.

If the GG is upped you would just see more influx of lousy reviews just for the GG. I would rather see people doing it that truly want to do it to support BGG and because they genuinely enjoy doing them.

Side Note: I really hate it when 90% of the review is reiterating rules and components included, with one quick opinion blurb at the end. Those can be guaranteed a 1GG approval or outright rejection from myself. If you want to list the components included, please use the game entry "Description", its easier to find and more useful in that location anyway if somebody needs to know.
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Paul S
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I agree with the OP.

And I don't understand the objections. You don't need to make every lousy review worth lots of GG.

The problem I suspect is that since 5 is the max, people gravitate to 2/3 for everything that's not the best/worst.

I'd suggest that e.g. Ender's epic reviews surely must be worth 10gg.

So up the max to 10, whilst keeping 1 as the minimum.

A bigger spread might push "average" reviews up to 4 - 6 gg - not unreasonable, I think, given the effort involved compared to uploading half a dozen pics.

But I imagine it's been suggested before more than once, and I don't do it for the gg anyway.
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Really the whole GG economy needs to be revamped. The awards are out of whack, but I think the bigger problem is there's too much money out there and not enough places to spend it. How about for say 500 GG I can buy a promo from the GeekStore?
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Caleb
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ed95005 wrote:
How about for say 500 GG I can buy a promo from the GeekStore?


Heh. Then the site would be paying you in real dollars for (virtual) content. And I'm going to guess that's not a happy thing for BGG's cash flow. Don't hold your breath.
 
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Ken B.
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The GG system went south when, in an effort to drum up money for the site, BGG started giving out fistfuls of it as a reward for becoming a supporter. Seriously, hundreds of thousands of GG simply flooded into the system, all for 15 bucks.

But reviews? Yeah...the "max" is 5, but mods are so ridiculously stingy with their awards. "Hey, man, thanks for working your ass off. Here's the equivalent of 2 cents."

I gave up on the whole thing a long time ago. I could get an uberbadge by writing 40 reviews at an hour+ apiece to create, or I could just throw 5 bucks at someone. I'm not exactly inspired to do either.
 
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David Boeren
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I've done several reviews in the past few days and gotten about 2.5gg apiece for them.

I've also done several strategy articles which take more time, are more in depth, rarer, and probably of higher value to players interested in learning more about the game. None of these are eligible to earn anything at all because they aren't called a "Review" or a "Session Report". What?

That doesn't seem right. Pictures are way over-valued and need much more stringent criteria. I have trouble even FINDING a good picture of a gameboard when I want to because the system is clogged with more frivolous pics drummed up just to earn geekgold.

For me, the most valuable content is the in-depth articles, whether they are reviews or not. Things where people spent some real effort THINKING about the game and posting practical observations about it. Many of these fall into General or Strategy and get no modding or rewards at all. Good thing I'm not in it for the rewards, and as pointed out there's not much to spend it on anyway. I just got enough to get myself an Avatar. I've got an assortment of 5+ Microbadges so unless I want to vary them there's not much more to spend there. A couple more odd badge variants and I'm pretty much done other than geekgold auctions, and who the heck knows what those people want with them since they haven't got any more to buy than I do.
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Pete Belli
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None of these are eligible to earn anything at all because they aren't called a "Review" or a "Session Report".


It is possible to earn GG for strategy articles, etc.

There is a box you can check before you submit the article... clicking on this puts your contribution in the GeekMod system.

Abandon ye all hope, who enter there! devil
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pete belli wrote:
Quote:
None of these are eligible to earn anything at all because they aren't called a "Review" or a "Session Report".


It is possible to earn GG for strategy articles, etc.

There is a box you can check before you submit the article... clicking on this puts your contribution in the GeekMod system.

Abandon ye all hope, who enter there! devil


And save a copy before submitting.
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Beloch wrote:
I'd suggest that e.g. Ender's epic reviews surely must be worth 10gg.


Enders reviews do end up with a lot more than 5 gg, because individual users tip them.

This one got 8gg from user tips + at least one from the submission reward, (and likely more than that).
Ender's Comprehensive Pictorial Overview: O Gnomeo, Gnomeo...Wherefore Art Thou O Gnomeo?
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frumpish wrote:
Beloch wrote:
I'd suggest that e.g. Ender's epic reviews surely must be worth 10gg.


Enders reviews do end up with a lot more than 5 gg, because individual users tip them.

This one got 8gg from user tips + at least one from the submission reward, (and likely more than that).
Ender's Comprehensive Pictorial Overview: O Gnomeo, Gnomeo...Wherefore Art Thou O Gnomeo?


Which goes to show that the tipping system works pretty well, but has no bearing on whether the modding system does.
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chuckhazard wrote:
pete belli wrote:
Quote:
None of these are eligible to earn anything at all because they aren't called a "Review" or a "Session Report".


It is possible to earn GG for strategy articles, etc.

There is a box you can check before you submit the article... clicking on this puts your contribution in the GeekMod system.

Abandon ye all hope, who enter there! devil


And save a copy before submitting.


And please, please don't delete your account afterward, stranding everyone who was relying on it for eternity.
 
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With the current exchange rate 5gg isn't even worth 1 dollar. If a review doesn't deserve 5gg then it doesn't deserve to be published.

I always either accept and give the full 5gg or decline the review when I am modding.
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