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Thunderstone Advance: Towers of Ruin» Forums » News

Subject: There Be Dragons preview rss

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Ian Kelly
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http://www.alderac.com/thunderstone/2012/01/13/there-be-drag...

The red frame and the shield icon are nice, but what I really wish this article talked about is that this dragon is level 3! What does it mean?! surprise
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Dan Cain
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Maybe it's a difficulty level. Kind of like what Cosmic Encounter does with their Aliens?

Level 3 = Hard
Level 1 = Easy

LA
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Ben Boersma
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Maybe its got something to do with the level of the dungeon.

Could be:
* They get a bonus at the level listed.
* When revealed, they go straight to the level listed (displacing other monsters)
* Could be used for a "Fame" mechanic, where you might be able to recruit a Hero or Villager if you have slayn a monster of a certain level?

Just a couple of guesses.

I really like the illustration of the dragon.
Although, it appears as though all the illustrations for Advance will be suspended on a coloured background, not depicting any surroundings etc...

Looking forward to seeing what the new heroes look like.
Cheers,
Ben.

 
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Mike P
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Maybe it will be used in initial setup...

Shuffle level 3 monsters and put them in a pile.
Shuffle level 2 monsters and put them on top of the pile.
Shuffle level 1 monsters and put them on top of the pile.

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Todd Rowland
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Boromir_and_Kermit wrote:
suspended on a coloured background, not depicting any surroundings etc...


Not at all. You're just seeing the sunset in the background. He's sitting on a hilltop, with his dinner under his claw.
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Artemus Maximus
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hope it's not for setting up the dungeon - it's going to take longer to sort monsters by that text that appears under the name and after the types of monster it is, rather than XP it gives (which i currently do & works well) or something else icon-based.

i'm guessing it's for a mechanic that refers to monster types, or other cards that do. I am also wondering if there will be VP counters included, to keep a running total...

can't wait to see more cards
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Joshua Reubens
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Though that does put into some questions about the full compatibility that was promised/implied. Honestly I would be very disappointed if the old cards are not compatible and it already seems like some are not (those that need daggers or militia...) I'm sure I would get it to try it out but what's a few rules changes vs having so many cards to choose from...
 
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Mark Wootton
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thaos52002 wrote:

Though that does put into some questions about the full compatibility that was promised/implied. Honestly I would be very disappointed if the old cards are not compatible and it already seems like some are not (those that need daggers or militia...)


I am not sure why this card puts that into question. Could you please explain, because it is difficult to answer when there is no clear explanation of what you mean?

We have said that the cards can be mixed. There is no rule that says you cannot have all of the starting cards in your village - Militia, Daggers, Iron Rations, Regulars, Long Spears and Torches - if that is what you want to do.

You can play with standard Thunderstone starting cards and village set-ups, you can play Thunderstone; Advance starting cards and village set-ups. You can play a combination of the two. It's your game.

Some cards work better if you have Militia in your starting decks, some cards will work better with Regulars.

What we have said is that there is nothing that prevents you from mixing the cards, as you see fit and that you can play with all of them. That is the case. How you choose to do that is up to you, but there is no mechanical barrier that prevents this from happening.

I cannot give everything away at this point. And I know we intend to provide further information that will help understand the relationships and integration of Thunderstone and Thunderstone: Advance, and the options that that presents. Can I suggest you wait till a bit more information has been released, so that you can see how the two sets do integrate, rather than worry that what we have said is not true.

Thunderstone: Advance has changes from the original game. Those changes to do not make the cards incompatible. Compatibility, does not mean that every card will work with every other card. But then that has always been true, even in the base set. Having a Cabal on the table with no spells means that their interactions with other cards will not happen. It does not create a compatibility issue with the Village. The same would be true of a card that interacted with Daggers, if you chose to have a set-up that did not have Daggers in it, then the cards that interact with Daggers, will not suddenly become incompatible, but the interaction may not happen.

Hope that helps, but I cannot answer your substantive point because I am not sure on the basis of your assertion.

Mark
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David Siskin
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Mark,

Thunderstone Advance looks like a good idea. Nice distinction between card types, improved basic cards...I'm in!
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Mike P
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dumpty wrote:
Mark,

Thunderstone Advance looks like a good idea. Nice distinction between card types, improved basic cards...I'm in!


Agreed. I liked the game before but the overall presentation made it difficult to get it played so I traded the game away. I'm hoping to give it a new chance now with Advance.
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Ian Kelly
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AEGTodd wrote:
Boromir_and_Kermit wrote:
suspended on a coloured background, not depicting any surroundings etc...


Not at all. You're just seeing the sunset in the background. He's sitting on a hilltop, with his dinner under his claw.


Wait, shouldn't the artwork depict the monster in a dungeon setting, since that's where we encounter him? Or is that no longer the case? surprise
 
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Peristarkawan wrote:
AEGTodd wrote:
Boromir_and_Kermit wrote:
suspended on a coloured background, not depicting any surroundings etc...


Not at all. You're just seeing the sunset in the background. He's sitting on a hilltop, with his dinner under his claw.


Wait, shouldn't the artwork depict the monster in a dungeon setting, since that's where we encounter him? Or is that no longer the case? surprise


If you read the fiction that Jeff has been putting out it might give a clue to the answer...
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Artemus Maximus
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to be fair, consider that Thunderstone has been 'out of the dungeon' for quite a while now. You'll see several monsters depicted in forests, swamps, mountains, grasslands, and sometimes in broad daylight from the previous expansions (looking at you, Spyros!)

I think the dragon previewed fits well thematically in art & mechanic though - flies out quickly to destroy the village!
 
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K. David Ladage
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Looks awesome. Looking forward to Hero cards...

Quick question -- I noticed that you brought up Disease cards in the preview...

Is there a chance that the 'special diseases' will become the 'standard' -- I love the idea that diseases all do different things.

"Life is like the disease deck... you never know what your gonna get." -- "Forest" G'ump, Half-Orc Ranger

Edit: In fact, by having the 'special' disease concept become the 'standard' disease concept, each new expansion can add a few new diseases to the mix as well...
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Peristarkawan wrote:
Wait, shouldn't the artwork depict the monster in a dungeon setting, since that's where we encounter him? Or is that no longer the case? surprise


See above for other good answers, but also, he does have a breech effect after all.
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Martin Larouche
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Har1equin wrote:
thaos52002 wrote:

Though that does put into some questions about the full compatibility that was promised/implied. Honestly I would be very disappointed if the old cards are not compatible and it already seems like some are not (those that need daggers or militia...)


I am not sure why this card puts that into question. Could you please explain, because it is difficult to answer when there is no clear explanation of what you mean?

We have said that the cards can be mixed. There is no rule that says you cannot have all of the starting cards in your village - Militia, Daggers, Iron Rations, Regulars, Long Spears and Torches - if that is what you want to do.

You can play with standard Thunderstone starting cards and village set-ups, you can play Thunderstone; Advance starting cards and village set-ups. You can play a combination of the two. It's your game.

Some cards work better if you have Militia in your starting decks, some cards will work better with Regulars.

What we have said is that there is nothing that prevents you from mixing the cards, as you see fit and that you can play with all of them. That is the case. How you choose to do that is up to you, but there is no mechanical barrier that prevents this from happening.

I cannot give everything away at this point. And I know we intend to provide further information that will help understand the relationships and integration of Thunderstone and Thunderstone: Advance, and the options that that presents. Can I suggest you wait till a bit more information has been released, so that you can see how the two sets do integrate, rather than worry that what we have said is not true.

Thunderstone: Advance has changes from the original game. Those changes to do not make the cards incompatible. Compatibility, does not mean that every card will work with every other card. But then that has always been true, even in the base set. Having a Cabal on the table with no spells means that their interactions with other cards will not happen. It does not create a compatibility issue with the Village. The same would be true of a card that interacted with Daggers, if you chose to have a set-up that did not have Daggers in it, then the cards that interact with Daggers, will not suddenly become incompatible, but the interaction may not happen.

Hope that helps, but I cannot answer your substantive point because I am not sure on the basis of your assertion.

Mark


Well i think i understand his concerns a bit, because i have them too.
Yes i know we do not know yet how all this will integrate and that we can customize our games however we want... but, with the little info we have right now:

- the new starting hand looks MUCH nicer than the old one.
- this said, there are litterally TONS of cards in the old set that works with the old militia, daggers and old food options.

Let's take just the militia:
- yes, we can add militia to the "new" village.
- who in their right mind would choose to take a militia?
- all the old cards that have militia effects on them will not be applicable anymore because no one would buy them.

The alternative is to use the old militias instead of the regulars. But then we are not using the nicer starting hand. And THEN there MAY be new cards that refer to regulars that could not be applicable anymore.

Maybe it's a non-issue... maybe there's a rule saying militias are treated the same way as regulars for text effects... maybe i am thinking too much about this... and maybe i am worried too much...

That's a lot of maybes... but going on with what we have, i(we) cannot help but speculate at this point (because that's all i(we) can do). My current speculations brings me to a *possible* conclusion that there *might* be a problem.

I'll have to wait and see.

(This is also with this new card. The "levels" of the old monsters are not specified. I(we) *assume* it's for a new mechanics. Does this means the old monsters cannot be used with that new mechanic? Again, speculations made on what available right now.)

Edit:
Also, this phrase scares me a bit:
Quote:
What we have said is that there is nothing that prevents you from mixing the cards, as you see fit and that you can play with all of them. That is the case. How you choose to do that is up to you, but there is no mechanical barrier that prevents this from happening.


I read this (maybe wrongly, i will admit) as:
"The old cards can mechanically work with the new game, but there might be problems. Since it's your game, you can tweak it to try and find a way to fix those problems".

When i'd rather read:
"The old cards can be integrated with the new game and there's no problem and it doesn't require any tweaks and/or house-rules to do so".

... again, this only going with the small info we currently have.
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Mark Wootton
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deedob wrote:

Also, this phrase scares me a bit:
Quote:
What we have said is that there is nothing that prevents you from mixing the cards, as you see fit and that you can play with all of them. That is the case. How you choose to do that is up to you, but there is no mechanical barrier that prevents this from happening.


I read this (maybe wrongly, i will admit) as:
"The old cards can mechanically work with the new game, but there might be problems. Since it's your game, you can tweak it to try and find a way to fix those problems".


This is difficult, as there are things in our preview programme that will discuss all sorts of things. And I am trying to answer questions without pre-empting those previews. And the "problem" is that some people's perception of a "problem" is different to another's.

When I say there are no problems, someone else will perhaps look at something that I do not see as problem and say that it is. Much of game design is subjective, thankfully - or else we would all be playing the one perfect game and there would be no variety

So, I think that all of the issues that people are discussing will be addressed. And I don't think that there are any problems (but others will have to make their own judgements). You know in the end all games have barriers - rules, complexity and so on. People's tolerance of those barriers and their perception of what is a barrier and what is a compelling reason to play vary. One person's joy is another's irritation.

You will not need house rules, we have, and will, explain any backwards compatibility questions in the light of new cards and new rules.

I think that people will overall be very pleased with everything we have done to make Thunderstone an even better game. I do not delude myself that we can please 100% of the people 100% of the time, with 100% of the things we do. That does not mean we do not do our very best to do that!

I hope that allays your concerns

Mark
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Marc Allie
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Surely there will be some new rule that regulars count as militia, for compatibility? That seems like a fairly good solution.
 
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Ian Kelly
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djinniman wrote:
Surely there will be some new rule that regulars count as militia, for compatibility? That seems like a fairly good solution.


No, see this post for explanation: Re: New starting deck previewed
 
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