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Subject: Force an action Forfeit? rss

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Matt LeVan
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Lets say Player1 just moved and now his activity token is at 5, while Player2 is still at 2.

I see two possible scenarios for what happens next, but I'm not sure which is better:

1) Player2 would get to make three actions in a row, plus two the next round, for five consecutive actions and a pretty much guaranteed win. This breaks the explicit "must take one or two actions" rule. As well as the text from the kickstarter page which says "as many as 4 unanswered actions in a row" (though that isn't in the rules).

2) The alternative as I see it is that Player1 has just snookered Player2 into forfeiting an action, so they can only take two actions this round, losing out on action 5.

What do you guys think?

matt
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Michael Mindes
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mattlevan wrote:
Lets say Player1 just moved and now his activity token is at 5, while Player2 is still at 2.

I see two possible scenarios for what happens next, but I'm not sure which is better:

1) Player2 would get to make three actions in a row, plus two the next round, for five consecutive actions and a pretty much guaranteed win. This breaks the explicit "must take one or two actions" rule. As well as the text from the kickstarter page which says "as many as 4 unanswered actions in a row" (though that isn't in the rules).

2) The alternative as I see it is that Player1 has just snookered Player2 into forfeiting an action, so they can only take two actions this round, losing out on action 5.

What do you guys think?

matt


Player 2 will make 3 actions in a row. Then if they become the first player, then they could do another 2 actions in a row.
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mattlevan wrote:
Lets say Player1 just moved and now his activity token is at 5, while Player2 is still at 2.

I see two possible scenarios for what happens next, but I'm not sure which is better:

1) Player2 would get to make three actions in a row, plus two the next round, for five consecutive actions and a pretty much guaranteed win. This breaks the explicit "must take one or two actions" rule. As well as the text from the kickstarter page which says "as many as 4 unanswered actions in a row" (though that isn't in the rules).

2) The alternative as I see it is that Player1 has just snookered Player2 into forfeiting an action, so they can only take two actions this round, losing out on action 5.

What do you guys think?

matt


It's all about budgeting your actions. You are allowed 1 or 2 actions per turn. However, if a player has used up their 5 actions for the round, the other player can still use 1 or 2 actions per round until they have used up all 5 of their actions. This can mean that the player who splurged quickly may actually have zero actions to spend in a turn. The player with the saved up actions can end up with more than 2 actions in a row at the end of the round. They can get even more if they are the first player during the next round.

Several action in a row don't necessarily guarantee a win, but they certainly help.
 
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Matt LeVan
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I haven't yet played enough to have a really strong opinion, but it seems to me that that cedes an awful lot of control to Player2 to set the pace of the game, and I could see it quickly devolving to a steady 1 action per turn as Player2 has the incentive to try and build up actions at the end of the round and Player1 tries to prevent it.

However, forcing Player2 to match Player1's pace or risk missing out on their fifth action could allow for another interesting dynamic.

I think we'll keep playing with the original rules for a week, then switch to my interpretation and report back.
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Michael Mindes
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mattlevan wrote:
I haven't yet played enough to have a really strong opinion, but it seems to me that that cedes an awful lot of control to Player2 to set the pace of the game, and I could see it quickly devolving to a steady 1 action per turn as Player2 has the incentive to try and build up actions at the end of the round and Player1 tries to prevent it.

However, forcing Player2 to match Player1's pace or risk missing out on their fifth action could allow for another interesting dynamic.

I think we'll keep playing with the original rules for a week, then switch to my interpretation and report back.


After each round, the first player marker switches. So that advantage or disadvantage switching every 10 actions (5 x2 players).
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Matt LeVan
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Yes, you're right of course, but none of the games we've played so far have gone past a single player switch (<20 total actions), so the number of consecutive actions at the end of a turn has had a large impact on the outcome.

perhaps you or one of the other experienced players could post to the strategy section about how else we could be approaching it?

Thanks,

matt

(edit: less than wasn't escaped)
 
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Moisés Solé
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If that is the case, is it still assumed the second player spends two turns to do the three actions? (It would matter for the One Grid rule)
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referee wrote:
If that is the case, is it still assumed the second player spends two turns to do the three actions? (It would matter for the One Grid rule)


Very good question! I've never run into this, but I can see how it could happen. The official rule is:

"Players cannot end their turn in a way that separates the Grid."

The idea behind this is that players should be able to keep the Grid intact mentally while performing their turn and if it is momentarily separated physically, it will be restored before the next player's turn.

Technically, players can only take 1 or 2 actions on their turn. There may be instances when they take 3 or more actions in a row - if they have played single actions while the other player played double actions or when they finish up a round and begin the next one. In theory, there is a pause after each turn, even if the other player has no actions remaining. Most of the time this will not matter, but in terms of keeping the Grid together it does.

Regarding Grid separation, this will only happen when the player's first action moves a piece away from the Grid and their second action restores connectivity.
 
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