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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Does C&C:A also cover medieval battles? rss

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Rob

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Hi All,

I just discovered this game system and love it. Battlelore is a medieval C&C system, but is now out of print. I just wanted to know if C&C:A coveres this period. If so, could I play C&C Ancients using my own medieval minis instead of trying to find expensive out-of-print Battlelore expansions on Ebay?

Thanks
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Jim Patterson
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Officially, C&C:A only goes up to about AD 400. I'm paraphrasing here, but the feeling has been that conditions changed enough tactically and perhaps in other ways as well that the ruleset as it exists couldn't stretch much past that. Unofficially, of course, you can do whatever you like with your own game, but I suspect the results would not be ideal.
 
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brian
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Saber72 wrote:
Hi All,

I just discovered this game system and love it. Battlelore is a medieval C&C system, but is now out of print. I just wanted to know if C&C:A coveres this period. If so, could I play C&C Ancients using my own medieval minis instead of trying to find expensive out-of-print Battlelore expansions on Ebay?

Thanks

If you have your own minis, just print off the BattleLore rule book from FFG's website. You'd have to make up a command deck as the cards are different than Ancients. You wouldn't have to worry about Lore since you are just looking at the historical portion.
 
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Miguel (working on TENNISmind...)
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My latest game: Big*Bang, a simple abstract about the first minutes of the Universe
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The battle closest to Middle Ages is Adrianople (378 AD), and from what I've heard it will go no further. It could be done changing the deck composition and some rules, mainly to reflect the increased impact of cavalry, but GMT seems to prefer a new different game that would cover the Byzantine era.

But that would fill the gap between CCA and BL, not replace BL!
 
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Rob ZoBell
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Saber72 wrote:
Hi All,

I just discovered this game system and love it. Battlelore is a medieval C&C system, but is now out of print. I just wanted to know if C&C:A coveres this period.

C&C: Ancients does not cover medieval battles, but perhaps a new C&C game will be published that will cover these. For more details, see this thread:

Re: BGG Wargame Designer Of The Month: Richard Borg
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brian
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oppenheimer wrote:
Saber72 wrote:
Hi All,

I just discovered this game system and love it. Battlelore is a medieval C&C system, but is now out of print. I just wanted to know if C&C:A coveres this period.

C&C: Ancients does not cover medieval battles, but perhaps a new C&C game will be published that will cover these. For more details, see this thread:

Re: BGG Wargame Designer Of The Month: Richard Borg

Interesting. Seems to indicate only the "fantasy" portion of BattleLore exists with FFG. Might mean they are ditching the historical portion allowing GMT to pick it up.
 
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Todd Rewoldt
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This doesn't help the OP much, but for my experience the historical battles in BattleLore are best played using the Medieval Lore ruleset rather than playing the game "dry" using only the command deck. Many of the tactics that are found in the command decks of the other other C&C games are pulled out of the BL command deck and placed in the lore deck (along with many tactics/magical spells/events not found in the other games' command decks), and if one is to play historical scenarios in BL without the use of the lore deck, one will likely find its play inferior to a game such as C&C:Ancients. Add in the Medieval Lore deck, and the game's tension ratchets up - much better comparison to Ancients then.

Possibly of some interest to the OP: maybe Vassal is a way to get your fix until GMT comes out with C&C:Medieval, or BattleLore becomes more readily available (I would recommend looking on the secondary market for a used game if you are interested - still can find some reasonably priced, less than the original MSRP). A new module has recently been posted that updates the game with all the official expansions produced by both Days of Wonder and Fantasy Flight Games.

The link to the main page for Vassal is here and the page for the BattleLore module is here. I hope that we get some Medieval campaigns and/or tournament play going soon for BL Vassal, through the BattleLore Vassal yahoo group - found here.
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Todd Rewoldt
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ColtsFan76 wrote:

Interesting. Seems to indicate only the "fantasy" portion of BattleLore exists with FFG. Might mean they are ditching the historical portion allowing GMT to pick it up.


I don't even guess any longer about what FFG is doing with BattleLore, but I would love for C&C:Historical Medieval to get fleshed out somehow. I was just fine with how that was going with Days of Wonder - see 100 Years' War expansion and Scottish War expansion - however, if another C&C game from GMT is what it takes, so be it.

I imagine it would go back to a single command deck rather than a separate action/event deck, as the Medieval Lore deck functioned, but whatever it takes to get Borg's version of the War of Roses, etc...
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Kent Reuber
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I think the official answer is "no", the scenarios only go up until about the fall of the Western Roman Empire.

However, I'd make a couple of arguments:

1) Most "ancients" set of rules (e.g., DBA, Impetus, etc.) include rules from Biblical up through about Wars of the Roses, and some like Armati, will even included rules for Renaissance armies. So, I don't think there's anything that limiting about the game. How is a horde of medieval warriors that different from the "barbarian" armies faced by Rome, for example?

2) For Dark Age battles, I think that C&CA is a better fit than BattleLore (the latters is focused on the Hundred Years War and Scottish wars). The light infantry/skirmisher units used in C&CA weren't used as much as in the time of BattleLore, but in the Dark Ages, but were still used during the dark ages, when missile units hadn't yet achieved the "mass" effect of later years. Also, you have units like the Viking bondi, which had some spears and some bows; personally, I think these units are well represented by C&CA auxilia. Also, I think that Viking units are well represented by the C&CA warrior units.
 
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Sword of Gideon
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I think the Middle Ages saw very few specialist troops such as those prevalent in the Classical and Imperial Roman periods. More peasant levies with minimal tactical flexibility. Check out the miniatures rules set "Dark Ages Infantry Slog" for instance, for a take on how relatively things might have been different.

Also cavalry became heavier and heavier in armour (as did foot to compensate) that I think the battles were pretty unsophisticated "mob-violence" affairs. Just my take.
 
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Rob

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Thanks for the input. It's been very helpful.
 
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