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Subject: Awesome 9P Variant rss

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Noble Knave
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9P Resistance is always a tough choice. The canonical version is 6 Resistance Operatives and 3 Spies, which is pretty tough for the Spies since the Resistance don't even have to know all of their members for Mission 5. On the other hand, 5 Resistance Operatives and 4 Spies is extremely tough for Resistance, since there are so many Spies. Hence, last night we tried the following variant to great success:

There are 4 Spies consisting of two spy teams. Team A (e.g. the vampiric looking male and the female spy) will have a reveal phase and so only know the other person on their team. Team B (e.g. the other two) will also have their own separate reveal phase.

Thus the Resistance have to have a perfect team for Mission 5 with all 5 RO, but the Spies have to be careful not to inadvertently out the other Spy Team or get a double-fail. They will be able to actually benefit from the character reveal plot cards, and have to use logic and deduction of their own to discover the other spy team and misdirect the Resistance. We only tried it once last night, but everyone enjoyed it and it really revived a game that had been getting a bit stale for us.
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Jason Miceli
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Wow - I think this is... awesome! Will definitely try this out soon!!

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Nathaniel Todd
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Yeah, at first glance this seems like a pretty sound idea. I haven't played The Resistance much with 9 or 10 player counts so I'm not that familiar with this problem. I'll have to squirrel this concept away for the future though if it ever becomes problematic!
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Todd
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I was at a conference last week and in the evenings we played many games of The Resistance. We were playing with ten players, but we came up with the exact same idea, and we even divided them the same way. It definitely seemed to bring the game to a more balanced state, though more testing is needed. Before the change the spies were winning quite easily. After the change it seemed much more balanced.
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Noble Knave
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With 10 it's a little more interesting, because once again the Resistance don't need a perfect team for Round 5. In our group it's pretty evenly balanced between Spies and Resistance at 10, so if I were to implement this I'd probably also make Mission 5 be 6 players, so the Resistance must have it perfect.
 
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Agent J
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So, have the Resistance won any of them yet?

My feeling are the game scales perfectly regardless of number of players. Differently, sure. There's a big difference between playing with 33% spies and 43% spies. In a lower-spy game, the spies have an easier time blending into the Resistance. In a higher spy game, the spies can just fail missions and they just need 1 or 2 Resistance members to be in doubt for the win.
 
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Clyde W
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Jythier wrote:
So, have the Resistance won any of them yet?

My feeling are the game scales perfectly regardless of number of players. Differently, sure. There's a big difference between playing with 33% spies and 43% spies. In a lower-spy game, the spies have an easier time blending into the Resistance. In a higher spy game, the spies can just fail missions and they just need 1 or 2 Resistance members to be in doubt for the win.
I must agree. Regular 9p Resistance is hard for Resistance, not spies, in my experience.
 
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Noble Knave
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We only tried one with this variant, and the Resistance handily won. In our 9P games with 3 Spies and plot cards, the Resistance generally win. A lot of that depends upon what plot cards come up, of course, and how competent the spies are.
 
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Clyde W
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Ooh. We never play with plot cards. If you want to the real 9p experience, play without. It's very hard for Resistance.
 
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Noble Knave
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Yes, I know. I'm fond of playing without plot cards, but the group I play it with isn't. Some of them are incapable of deduction without them, whereas I think they're a bit of a crutch.
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Clyde W
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Ah, pity. Agreed all around. Maybe remove the more powerful plot cards instead then to balance it? I don't like mucking with the game's ratios.
 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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Are you figuring out through more physical cues, or deduction? Just curious - if everyone knows everyone's tells, then the Resistance is going to win even with 5 spies.
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Christopher M
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Jythier wrote:
Are you figuring out through more physical cues, or deduction? Just curious - if everyone knows everyone's tells, then the Resistance is going to win even with 5 spies.


I'm pretty sure Steve uses deduction based on voting. I have been foiled many times by this one...
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Noble Knave
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I tend to go mostly on deduction, and some on physical and behavioral cues. I've been misled by the physical/behavioral before, so I use it to inform my opinions but always defer to deduction.

My group rarely plays without plot cards, as mentioned, and the last time was several weeks ago when I was a spy and we killed them. It's been some time since I was Resistance sans plot cards.

I'm also fond of playing with plot cards but keeping them secret during distribution until they're resolved. It adds a new layer of intrigue.
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Noble Knave
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1awesomeguy wrote:
Jythier wrote:
Are you figuring out through more physical cues, or deduction? Just curious - if everyone knows everyone's tells, then the Resistance is going to win even with 5 spies.


I'm pretty sure Steve uses deduction based on voting. I have been foiled many times by this one...


I bet you were, spy!
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Noble Knave
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Since you've joined the conversation, how did you like that variant? You were one of the spies that game, as I recall.
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Christopher M
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thenobleknave wrote:
Since you've joined the conversation, how did you like that variant? You were one of the spies that game, as I recall.


I liked it a lot actually. Minus being attacked by your girlfriend, it was all good fun

What I like about the variant is that it gives the spies something else to deduce. Also, if you are playing with plot cards, it makes it so the spies can actually get some information from them. What I like about The Resistance is the deduction element.
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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I always thought the biggest spy tell is that they aren't deducing anything, therefore you can tell who is a spy by how much they are trying to figure out. Having the spies have something to figure out would screw me up!
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Phil Fry
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I will be running Steve's variant via PBF beginning in the next couple of days. I have not announced it yet on the PBF Waiting List. I thought I would announce it here first, as that is where most of the interest lies. If you are interested in playing, please PM me.
 
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Clyde W
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Phil, IF you need a 9th, I'll be your 9th. Put me in a sub or alternate 9th only, however...
 
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H C
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Jythier wrote:
So, have the Resistance won any of them yet?

My feeling are the game scales perfectly regardless of number of players. Differently, sure. There's a big difference between playing with 33% spies and 43% spies. In a lower-spy game, the spies have an easier time blending into the Resistance. In a higher spy game, the spies can just fail missions and they just need 1 or 2 Resistance members to be in doubt for the win.


Are there any stats of win rates percentage for 5-10 player counts that statistically show which side has the advantage?
 
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