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Subject: This game is broken/bad! And not just because I lost . . . . rss

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Peter Batterton
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This is a general appeal to those of you have one of "these" in your gaming group. I will cite a couple of examples (see if you can identity with any of these):

After winning a game "That was fun. I really like it." Then the following week, after losing do to a game time constraint, "I'll never have to play that again. If I had known X and Y, I would have do W and Z".

Another example. Playing a two out of three tourney- "I lost can I coincide now. Great! You win. Bye."

A very nice guy and fun to be around (really), we run into this "take my marbles and go home attitude sometimes." Often after losing a game. Not every time, but often enough that we have begun to talk about it.

Its not a tantrum , but more of a bad attitude born out of losing.

Can anyone relate?
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chris lake
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When playing with my wife, If I win, im not allowed to talk about it unless she has won a gave already during that play session, or if it was really close. To make any comment, even along the lines of, "Well I just got lucky" gets a stern look and threats that she wont play again if I continue to gloat.
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Isaac Finkelstein
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PBatt wrote:

This is a general appeal to those of you have one of "these" in your gaming group. I will cite a couple of examples (see if you can identity with any of these):

After winning a game "That was fun. I really like it." Then the following week, after losing do to a game time constraint, "I'll never have to play that again. If I had known X and Y, I would have do W and Z".

Another example. Playing a two out of three tourney- "I lost can I coincide now. Great! You win. Bye."

A very nice guy and fun to be around (really), we run into this "take my marbles and go home attitude sometimes." Often after losing a game. Not every time, but often enough that we have begun to talk about it.

Its not a tantrum , but more of a bad attitude born out of losing.

Can anyone relate?


Tell the big baby to grow up or he will no longer be invited. That type of behavior is unacceptable in adults (or even in older children).
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Boaty McBoatface
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Why would someone not concede in a tournament so they can go off and play something else (and indeed allowing you to move on to the next match)? As to the other story, sorry its fair comment. Some game tactics do not work if there is an artifical time constraint, which would work in a full duration game (Merchant of Venus springs to mind here).
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Pater Absurdus
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In this hobby you have to get used to losing. Most games are for 3-4 players which means that the average player will loose 75% of the time in competitive games. That's just how it is.

On the other hand don't like a game as much if it seems like I lost due to swingyness in the rules or player powers. An example of this was with the Leaders expansion of 7 Wonders. Leaders took a fairly balanced game and made it much more swingy. In my first game I lost and my wife won. I thought the game was inferior when Leaders was added but I was still happy for my wife and didn't make a big deal out of it.

Bottom line, it's not fun to play with people who only have fun when they win.

PBatt wrote:
after losing do due to a game time constraint

FTFY

PBatt wrote:
"I lost can I coincide now. Great! You win. Bye."

I am not sure what that means. "Coincide?" Is that being used in a way I am not familiar with or perhaps a iOS spell correct gone awry.
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Dave James

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I'm having difficulty understanding what any of this has to do with the subject title: This game is broken/bad! Sounds to me it's about a lot of complaints about sore losers, which has nothing to do with a broken game.
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Chris
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DaveJames wrote:
I'm having difficulty understanding what any of this has to do with the subject title: This game is broken/bad! Sounds to me it's about a lot of complaints about sore losers, which has nothing to do with a broken game.

Looks like it's time to break out Bunco.
 
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Andy Van Zandt
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DaveJames wrote:
I'm having difficulty understanding what any of this has to do with the subject title: This game is broken/bad! Sounds to me it's about a lot of complaints about sore losers, which has nothing to do with a broken game.

The thread title is referencing the attitude conveyed by the sore losers.
 
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Joe V
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I know someone kind of like this. They don't really quit, but they get kind of unpleasant to play with. Now this person is a very good friend of mine and I'm more than willing to overlook this (very minor) flaw. They're usually a very good sport and only truly get upset when they lose due to a fluke. They occasionally concede.

Now I've been told by my friends that I have a bad reaction to losing. I'll play devil's advocate for myself and say that I always play through. I never ask for a concession and I try not to bash the game too much. What I know that I do, and what has been interpreted as poor sportsmanship, is that I go on about mistakes I made in the game. I'm afraid that this is more due to my ability to get hung up on my errors than anything else. Now there was this one game where I know I behaved absolutely horribly and, after going back and looking at it, I can only keep concluding that I had a right to behave that way.

I won't name the specific game, but it was a territorial conquest game. Early in the game I got double-teamed by two players who reduced me down to one province (which is nothing in this game). I wasn't upset at this point. I was a little miffed at having been ganged up on, but not really letting it show. And then we found out about the rule. You can't conquer someone if they have only one province. I was stuck in the game. I was bordered by neighbors who had massive empires now and would just keep conquering any provinces I took as they had in the very beginning. I respectfully asked if I could leave the game and, remember this because it is important for later, I was given the answer "No, because you could still have an impact on the game." So I sat there and built an army. I built and built and built. That's all I did. There was zero conversation going on in the game so I was bored to tears and left to stew and get more PO'd than I was before. The turn before the end of the game, one of the players who double-teamed me was about to take the lead and win. He'd been building a military and was in a good position. Boom, I sea-borne invaded him and wiped him out enough to give the person in first place a solid victory. The person I invaded was the very same person who made a big deal about me not bowing out because I could "have an impact on the game". I thought this was ironic justice. He got his wish. I had a huge impact on the game. What I did was spiteful, yes. But I performed as I did not because I was losing, but because the assembled players more or less went out of their way to ensure that I did was miserable for, literally, two straight hours. I keep reflecting on that memory, attempting to vindicate them and incriminate me, and I cannot. That's the only time that REALLY sticks out in my memory of me behaving in a nasty way and that is the only game where I've ever asked to concede before the end. And I only did it in that scenario because I was so utterly decimated like ten minutes into the game with two hours left to go.

Anyway, that's my two bits.
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Matthew S.
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Redward wrote:


PBatt wrote:
"I lost can I coincide now. Great! You win. Bye."

I am not sure what that means. "Coincide?" Is that being used in a way I am not familiar with or perhaps a iOS spell correct gone awry.


He means "concede", presumably.
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David
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Well. Skip Bo for example IS bad, and not just because I lost...

But I know what you mean. The first time I played El Grande I hated it. Partially because I lost and partially because I didn't understand it (and thus lost). The second time (yeeeeears later) I understood it finally, I won and I started to like it. I definitely used to have that tendency. Thankfully it has improved.

I still hate to feel being at the mercy of a game (like Skip Bo) or not understanding it, though...
 
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Peter Batterton
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Exactly correct.

The strange thing is its not what I would call the "typical" sore loser event. IE- Melt down/tantrum/fit and stomp off. Although I suppose that this is a "mature" melt down.

And its somewhat hit and miss. When losing in some games, there is no adverse reaction. Come to think of it, the negative reaction seems to be a byproduct of losing a 2 player game. Perhaps it the competitive nature that is causing the problem (in multi-player games I haven't seen this behavior).
 
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Peter Batterton
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Kempeth wrote:
Well. Skip Bo for example IS bad, and not just because I lost...


Then YOU Sir will will not be receiving an invite to the 3rd annual Skip Bo tourney.
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Peter Batterton
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slatersteven wrote:
Why would someone not concede in a tournament so they can go off and play something else (and indeed allowing you to move on to the next match)? As to the other story, sorry its fair comment. Some game tactics do not work if there is an artifical time constraint, which would work in a full duration game (Merchant of Venus springs to mind here).


In detail, I would win the game if X wasn't achieved by end of turn 8. The game mechanic to determine play order was chit pulls. There are pulls for each player as well as "end of turn" chits. He pulled both end of turn on turn 8 and effectively ended the turn without combat allowing me to win the game. He had a very good chance of winning if it had not been for that pull.


 
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Dave James

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It means to be in agreement or concur.
 
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ErikPeter Walker
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The trauma tokens in the Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game – Exodus Expansion come to mind. Player elimination is pretty harsh. After a game, the person who gets eliminated is almost assuredly going to be the one who thinks it's a bad expansion.
 
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Jim §
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Redward wrote:

In this hobby you have to get used to losing. Most games are for 3-4 players which means that the average player will loose lose 75% of the time in competitive games. That's just how it is.
. . . .
PBatt wrote:
after losing do due to a game time constraint

FTFY



FTFY
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Julian Wasson
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This is kind of tangential to your main point, but I definitely see a trend of people liking games that they lose less. But a lot of that actually makes sense. If you grok the game, you're likely going to do better at it. If you don't really understand it, you're likely going to do poorly at it. Also, if you don't really get it, you probably won't like it much. So I think the correlation is caused by a secondary factor and not necessarily a matter of not liking the game because they lose. Although, there certainly are some people who are so competitive they can't enjoy themselves if they aren't winning.

I can understand conceding in a two-out-of-three tourney if, after the first game, you realize you're poorly matched and don't have much chance. For instance if it's a CCG and their deck is particularly strong against your deck it might not be worth playing out the 15 min of a second game. I think it betrays a lack of confidence if you're conceding halfway through a fairly evenly matched event, though.
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Pater Absurdus
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jimwithatwist wrote:
Redward wrote:

In this hobby you have to get used to losing. Most games are for 3-4 players which means that the average player will loose lose 75% of the time in competitive games. That's just how it is.
. . . .
PBatt wrote:
after losing do due to a game time constraint

FTFY



FTFY


Thanks, spelling errors that spell check can't find are troublesome!
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PBatt wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Why would someone not concede in a tournament so they can go off and play something else (and indeed allowing you to move on to the next match)? As to the other story, sorry its fair comment. Some game tactics do not work if there is an artifical time constraint, which would work in a full duration game (Merchant of Venus springs to mind here).


In detail, I would win the game if X wasn't achieved by end of turn 8. The game mechanic to determine play order was chit pulls. There are pulls for each player as well as "end of turn" chits. He pulled both end of turn on turn 8 and effectively ended the turn without combat allowing me to win the game. He had a very good chance of winning if it had not been for that pull.




In that particular case it does sounds like a pretty frustrating way to lose.

I'd personally probably just try to stay away from 2 player games with the guy since it sounds like that's where the problem is. It doesn't sound bad enough to avoid him entirely.
 
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