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Subject: Element progression rss

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Mark McGee
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I'm looking for a cyclical progression of elements for a game I'm working on. The elements represent resources, and they cycle in a specific pattern. I want the progression to make sense and to use elements of nature that people already basically understand.

For example:
Water evaporates into
Wind which blows in storms with
Lightning which catches things on
Fire that burns things into ash and
Earth in which is grown
Grass which collects the morning dew (Water again)

The problem is that I need a rotation of only 5 elements. I like those 6 that I have, but ultimately I think one will have to go. I have been having trouble making a 5 part cycle though.

Ideas?
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Eric Etkin
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Knock out Grass. It's a subdomain of "Earth," anyway.
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Filip W.
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How about:

Water freezes into
Ice, which compacts onto/melts onto
Earth, which feeds
Fire, that burns into
Air (smoke), that creates the
Water (rain)
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Ryan Wanless
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MOTHDevil wrote:

Knock out Grass. It's a subdomain of "Earth," anyway.


I agree, earth can collect dew just as well...

Earth, Wind, Water, Fire, Lightning are the basic elements
 
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Guy Srinivasan
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meshnaster wrote:
Water evaporates into
Wind which blows in storms with
Lightning which catches things on
Fire that burns things into ash and
Earth in which is grown
Grass which collects the morning dew (Water again)

My thoughts, in order, except I wrote this first sentence later:

Water to wind sounds silly to me. Why not air?
Wind to lightning makes some sense. Air to lightning a little less. Clouds to lightning makes a lot of sense. Water to clouds? Makes sense but clouds aren't epic. Storm?
Lightning to fire is great.
Fire to earth makes little sense. But we know we want fire to something to water. What produces water?
Grass to water makes little sense. What produces water?
What actually produces water? I'm not sure, is it just recycled? Let's check the internet while it's still not Wednesday...
I'm surprised, that didn't work.

Sorry, I don't know what comes before water.
 
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Mark McGee
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GreedyAlgorithm wrote:
But we know we want fire to something to water. What produces water?
Grass to water makes little sense. What produces water?
What actually produces water? I'm not sure, is it just recycled? Let's check the internet while it's still not Wednesday...
I'm surprised, that didn't work.

Sorry, I don't know what comes before water.


Yeah, this is the toughest part for me too.

I like the idea of taking out Grass, because it's a subset of Earth. The only thing about that is that Fire traditionally has a very different interaction with Grass than it does with Earth. It might just take a little more thinking.

I guess even without the Grass element, I could combine a Fire resource and an Earth resource to pay for a spell named "Forest Fire" and it would still make sense, right?
 
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J Bengi
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Chemically, water is a product of combustion, so from fire you get water (vapor).
 
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Guy Srinivasan
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bengi wrote:
Chemically, water is a product of combustion, so from fire you get water (vapor).

Right but I assume we're looking for a progression that feels right rather then one that has a rationalization.

Fire to water because of combustion. Fire to air because of smoke. Fire to earth because of ash. Fire to cheeseburgers because of the grill. But in my opinion none of those feel right, they feel like an after-the-fact just-so story about what follows fire... or in bgg parlance, the theme feels tacked on.

Mark, correct me if I'm off-base here, it's your question.
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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To quote the immortal Xander Harris,

This is all about fear.

Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate.
Hate leads to anger.

No wait, hold on.

Fear leads to hate.
Hate leads to the dark side.

Hold on, no, umm,

First you get the women,
then you get the money,
then you...
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Chris J Davis
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Could one of your elements be 'life'?
 
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Why not try the classical chinese or japanese elemental shstems?

Chinese: water, fire, air, wood, metal
Japanese: water, fire, wind, lightning, earth E

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_elements_(Japanese_philoso...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing
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Brook Gentlestream
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Sam Phillips Beckerman
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meshnaster wrote:
Water evaporates into
Wind which blows in storms with
Lightning which catches things on
Fire that burns things into ash and
Earth in which is grown
Grass which collects the morning dew (Water again)

The problem is that I need a rotation of only 5 elements. Ideas?


wind blows
storm forms
lightening strikes
rain falls
rivers evaporate
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Kevin Oedekoven
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Water evaporates into
Wind which blows in storms with
Lightning which catches things on
Fire that burns things into ash and
Earth upon which condenses
Water
 
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upandawaygames.com
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earth stifles fire burns wood channels water rusts metal plows earth
 
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Sam Mercer
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Sam Houston wrote:

wind blows
storm forms
lightening strikes
rain falls
rivers evaporate


"Lilu Dallas - Multi pass!"
 
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Mark McGee
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GreedyAlgorithm wrote:

Fire to water because of combustion. Fire to air because of smoke. Fire to earth because of ash. Fire to cheeseburgers because of the grill. But in my opinion none of those feel right, they feel like an after-the-fact just-so story about what follows fire... or in bgg parlance, the theme feels tacked on.

Mark, correct me if I'm off-base here, it's your question.


Correct, I'm looking for something that feels right and is easily explained and understood. My game mechanics call for a system like this, and in turn, this system will affect how the more specific details of the mechanic pan out, so I'm really working hard to integrate the game mechanics and the elemental progression system.

That said, you guys have come up with some great ideas. I'm going to take some time and compile a lot of these suggestions and condense them into what will work best with the game. Thanks.

One thing I think I'll do is to use icons instead of words when describing the elements. For instance, since Water does evaporate into air, but not specifically Wind, if I used an icon that represented air/wind then water could safely turn into it and it could also safely blow in storm clouds for lightning.

Also, I'm glad to see that the Japanese system of elemental progression is similar to what I was thinking. It at least has the same elements. In American culture, the closest thing we have is the Planeteers from years ago: Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, Heart.
 
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