Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

Advanced Civilization» Forums » General

Subject: Calamities rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Henry Ho
United States
Frederick
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My friends and I have recently started playing Advanced Civilization, so we are still very novice. I feel that a player getting hit with 2 calamities in 1 round is too much. What are some disadvantages if we change the rule to a limit of 1 calamity per player per round?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jennifer Schlickbernd
United States
Santa Clarita
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It becomes a race to nine cities and initial territory becomes a primary way of winning. Without the number of calamities in Advanced Civ, there's not enough balance. You need to keep playing. Conversely you could simply play regular civ and agree not to trade calamities.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Aldridge
United States
Nashville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Infinite Dreams Gaming
badge
Warehouse 13: The Board Game
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
By all means, implement whatever house rules increase your enjoyment of the game. However, being able to deal with the effects of calamities is a core aspect of the game. I would not recommend that you change the maximum number of calamities a player may face.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Henry Ho
United States
Frederick
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We have played it twice now, with the first game, 1 player was dealt with 2 calamities in a single round, while in the 2nd game, 2 players were dealt with 2 calamities in a single round (but each player got hit with the double-calamity in different rounds), and all 3 players were pretty much out of the game, and had no fun for the majority of the remaining of the games. Of course, we're just novices so we don't know what to do to make it fun again. The players in the lead did not get hit with the double-calamity so they basically ran away with the 2 games. I don't know if it makes any difference, but we had 8 players in both games, and did not use any extra board(s).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jennifer Schlickbernd
United States
Santa Clarita
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
nighthawk326 wrote:
We have played it twice now, with the first game, 1 player was dealt with 2 calamities in a single round, while in the 2nd game, 2 players were dealt with 2 calamities in a single round (but each player got hit with the double-calamity in different rounds), and all 3 players were pretty much out of the game, and had no fun for the majority of the remaining of the games. Of course, we're just novices so we don't know what to do to make it fun again. The players in the lead did not get hit with the double-calamity so they basically ran away with the 2 games. I don't know if it makes any difference, but we had 8 players in both games, and did not use any extra board(s).


That is your problem. They aren't out of the game. What you do is trade your butt off and rebuild your cities. Your other problem is that you should not play the game with 8 players and no extra board as it is a much harder game that way. Play with 7 with the regular board or 8 with the expansion. The way you are playing does work, but it takes experienced players.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Coram
Canada
Coquitlam
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
When you are more experienced, you'll get better at anticipating and recovering from calamities. Once you know what the calamities all do, and which Civ cards shield you or help you recover from the effects, you'll find that reducing a couple of cities every turn isn't a big thing.

And, if other players offer you a good deal, you can guess you're getting a calamity - BUT the deal is still worth it if it gets you that final Bronze or Cloth that you can cash in for a bunch of cards that will help you rebuild.

The key to Adv Civ isn't avoiding the calamities, it's learning how to manage them.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Clark
United States
Holyoke
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jschlickbernd wrote:
Your other problem is that you should not play the game with 8 players and no extra board as it is a much harder game that way. Play with 7 with the regular board or 8 with the expansion.


This times a million. There's no way you should be playing an 8-player game without the western expansion panel.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Bachman
United States
Colonie
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Numskull wrote:
jschlickbernd wrote:
Your other problem is that you should not play the game with 8 players and no extra board as it is a much harder game that way. Play with 7 with the regular board or 8 with the expansion.


This times a million. There's no way you should be playing an 8-player game without the western expansion panel.


Perhaps someone should have let the proofreaders of the rulebook know that. whistle

Advanced Civilization rulebook wrote:
16.2 Eight players - All four panels of the mapboard are used. If the Western Extension Mapboard is available, it is used as well. Each player uses 47 tokens.


Considering they are novices and simply following the rules as written, perhaps making them feel like they are incompetent and doing something wrong is not the best approach.

If getting double whammied by calamities is turning the group off, a houserule limiting calamities to one per player per turn wouldn't be unfounded. I'd make a point of removing the houserule after the first or second play though, after players have had a chance to see all of the calamities, their effects, and learn what can be done to minimize their impact.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jennifer Schlickbernd
United States
Santa Clarita
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
All right Steve, you win. I'm unsubscribing from Advanced Civ. If anyone needs something, geekmail me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Sheets
United States
Lebanon
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't remember ever having a run away game, of Civ. There are so many ways to take down a front runner. I have seen it happen many times.

This is a game that takes multiple plays to figure it out. I think it is definitely worth the time and effort to do so. In time you will figure out a combination of cards that help reduce the effects of calamities and help to rebuild after they happen.

I can remember playing seven or eight player Civ before the western extension map came out. It was...intense. I highly recommend getting a western extension map. If you can't afford the map, there are PDF versions out there, including several versions at BGG.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Henry Ho
United States
Frederick
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks everyone for all your advices on the game. We do have the Western Extension map, and will use that the next time to see if it makes a difference with the run-away games. The winners of the 2 games beat the rest of us like easily over 1000 points (if not 2000 points). We were so sick of it that we didn't care to record our final standings. Even the winners felt bad.

Of course, there were other factors for the run-away games beside the calaminities...like the winners had the easier civilizations (Egypt in game 1, and Babylon in game 2); some of the players played like this is a war game and not a trading game; players not keeping in mind who the leaders were to hold back from trading with them or to hit them with their calamity's secondary effects; and simply that they were great players and knew how to trade well.

I'm sure most of us made tons of rookie mistakes during the games, and I guess we can only improve as we keep playing and get more experience...but any advice that helps us move our knowledge base and game play quicker is greatly appreciated.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Sheets
United States
Lebanon
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Western Extension map won't help with run away games. The extra room it provides will let the various empires spread out a bit more. For example, instead of having just two or three extra population after accounting for city support you might have seven or eight. This extra padding will help soften the blow caused by calamities.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Henry Ho
United States
Frederick
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hopefully, with the Western Extension map, the players won't need to play like it's a wargame. I was the victim of this in the first game, which basically never gave my civilization a chance to grow.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randy Brown
United States
Manchester
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Having a wargame neighbor will knock you out of the game faster than a double calamity draw. Hopefully your group will start to see that Civ is not a wargame, that territory (even city sites) isn't as crucial as it first seems, and that good trading is what makes a winner. I've had success with explaining Civ on a Settlers model.

One issue is that for the first several turns of the game, the land rush feels crucial. It takes a few turns of city draws for the real game to emerge, leading new players to make bad assumptions as to how the game will unfold. I played recently where just this thing happened. A new player, who is an excellent gamer, felt that my advice against constant warfare was wrong. He set out to prove it me. In the end, he had a meltdown, left the table, and had dragged down the scores of the other new players. It really sucked, but after I thought about it for a while, I realized why he had played the way he did.

Initially, players are pushing for as much farmland and city sites as they can get. It feels really important, even though it will be many, many turns before players really need to worry about having and supporting 9 cities. As their hands fill with cards, the game transitions away from this land grab. Calamities come out, requiring constant rebuilding. This relieves pressure from the borders as each player must focus on rebuilding. Eventually advances (Agriculture and Architecture) really minimize the importance of land. The game changes several times, and it's easy to assume that what works well in one phase of the game will continue to work (or even be important) in the next.

This player set out to prove me wrong. He knew from experience that I sometimes miss things. Certainly I have seen more aggressive games of Civ, and I was not trying to dissuade him from that trajectory. However, he kept questioning the point of any kind of peace. His perception was that with population doubling each turn, tokens would need to be constantly thrown into the fires of war. His aggression was initially rewarding. As Crete, he captured most of Greece and Anatolia. However, as the other players pushed back, and calamities started to fall, Crete was all but wiped out.

It's very hard to convince some players that the game is about to change. Civ can be played aggressively. However, the aggression should be channeled. All out war every turn will only ensure that both the aggressor and the aggressee will be knocked out. Calamities can be bad, but they aren't nearly as bad as a player who misuses aggression in Civ.

R
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Shaffer
United States
San Francisco
CA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
nighthawk326 wrote:
Of course, there were other factors for the run-away games beside the calaminities...like the winners had the easier civilizations (Egypt in game 1, and Babylon in game


I wouldn't describe Egypt and Babylon as the easier civilizations.

Quote:
2); some of the players played like this is a war game and not a trading game;


Playing like a wargame breaks the game. Agression has its place, but over agression kills both players involved. Robert Randy has it right above.

Quote:
players not keeping in mind who the leaders were to hold back from trading with them or to hit them with their calamity's secondary effects


This is simply inexcusable. Playing a 6+ hour game like Civ sloppily is a great way to get yourself uninvited to the next game we play.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Sheets
United States
Lebanon
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
players not keeping in mind who the leaders were to hold back from trading with them or to hit them with their calamity's secondary effects



This is simply inexcusable. Playing a 6+ hour game like Civ sloppily is a great way to get yourself uninvited to the next game we play.


This is so true. It only takes one or two people to lose focus, in this game, to ruin it for the rest. Fortunately we have enough people, in our gaming group, that have no problem reminding everyone else who the leader is. Sometimes the leader of the game tries to convince us that some else is in the lead, but that is part of the game.

Henry you might have to be the one who reminds the other players of who is in the lead. Unless of course you are in the lead. Then this duty belongs to someone else.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Youells
United States
Camp Hill
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
I paid 100 geek gold, and all I got was this lousy overtext
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Whenever I play the game in a group that includes players new to the game,I always make certain that they are given Babylon, Egypt, or Assyria to start with. These nations all have a goodly number of city sites available to them, and are generally considered the "easiest" to play. In my experience, nothing will dampen the experience for a new player faster than getting a "not so good" nation, or overly complicating things by sticking them with Crete.

Besides, experienced players should be able to handle any of the countries. The two seasoned pros who took Babylon and Egypt in a game full of new players should be embarrassed with a 1000 point victory.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Youells
United States
Camp Hill
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
I paid 100 geek gold, and all I got was this lousy overtext
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ah, yes. The finger-pointing strategy. Always a good tactic, lol.

As a side note, the trade embargo rarely works. Once somebody needs the last spice (or whatever) that the embargo victim has, a trade will get done, and the embargo is dead.




srob99 wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
players not keeping in mind who the leaders were to hold back from trading with them or to hit them with their calamity's secondary effects



This is simply inexcusable. Playing a 6+ hour game like Civ sloppily is a great way to get yourself uninvited to the next game we play.


This is so true. It only takes one or two people to lose focus, in this game, to ruin it for the rest. Fortunately we have enough people, in our gaming group, that have no problem reminding everyone else who the leader is. Sometimes the leader of the game tries to convince us that some else is in the lead, but that is part of the game.

Henry you might have to be the one who reminds the other players of who is in the lead. Unless of course you are in the lead. Then this duty belongs to someone else.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Sheets
United States
Lebanon
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
As a side note, the trade embargo rarely works. Once somebody needs the last spice (or whatever) that the embargo victim has, a trade will get done, and the embargo is dead.


We have never tried to do a complete trade embargo with the leader it just doesn't work. If I am trading with someone I think is in the lead and I have a calamity that player is going to get it. I will try to make that trade late in the trading phase to make it difficult for that player to get rid of the calamity.

We have one player who will not trade a card if he thinks it's the last one you need to complete a set. Even if you have a card that would complete a set for him. It doesn't matter if you are the leader or in last place, he just will not do it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J.L. Robert
United States
Sherman Oaks
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Follow me for wargames!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If a allows me to earn a NET GAIN on the leader, then I make it. Even if it completes a set for the leader, if my completed set is of higher value, then it's worth it to me.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Bachman
United States
Colonie
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
J.L.Robert wrote:
If a allows me to earn a NET GAIN on the leader, then I make it. Even if it completes a set for the leader, if my completed set is of higher value, then it's worth it to me.

How do you ascertain that? Just from the value of the set?

If the leader's lower valued set allows them to purchase 250 points in civ cards, but your higher valued set only allows you to purchase 220 points worth, do you still consider that a "NET GAIN"?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.