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Subject: Experiment: When you say "god", try using the actual name rss

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William Boykin
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In Raven I Trust.

Or rather, you really shouldn't. He'll pluck out both of your eyeballs for your loose change if you let him, but He did create the world out of a snowball, so I guess I should cut him a BIT of slack.

Just don't play cards with Him. He cheats.



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Like God has a name.
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William Boykin
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MWChapel wrote:
Like God has a name.


He does, but he has over 9 billion of them.

And once we figure them all, its all over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Billion_Names_of_God

Personally, I think this happened back in 1997. Everything since then has been a Pay per View exclusive on Fox.

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"But in the Latin alphabet, "Jehovah" begins with an 'I'."
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Dispaminite wrote:
"But in the Latin alphabet, "Jehovah" begins with an 'I'."


Oh dear.
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Shameless wrote:
This was inspired by the "In God We Trust" thread.

"God" means different things to different people, but I suspect this statement will not be controversial: "god" not a name.

Most people in these parts, when they say "god" (or "God") actually mean "Yaweh". To say "god" when you mean "Yaweh" is disrespectful to thousands and thousands of other gods, just as referring to "humanity" as "mankind" is disrespectful to women.

I suggest an experiment: try showing respect to all gods (including your own) by referring to them by their proper names.

A few examples:
In Yaweh we trust
One nation under Yaweh
"Act of Yaweh"


Well I have a problem with your premise. I don't think it is disrespectful to use the generic "God" to refer to whatever higher power people trust in.

And the founders of this country were well steeped in general Deism and abhorred the idea of religious persecution of all kinds. Which is why they put freedom of religion into the foundational structure of our constitution. The FIRST amendment. So for them "In God we Trust" was meant to be the generic "God". They were basically Mono-Theists in their deism and most of them considered some variation of Christianity to be the most accurate religion. But they were specifically NOT enshrining "Yaweh" by name as a Government endorsed default.

That some huge percentage of the people in the country would be Christians was expected. But they were intentionally leaving room for people who had other concepts of God to also be included in our "e pluribus unum" including trusting in which ever concept of God was in their hearts and minds.
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jonnylawless wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:
"But in the Latin alphabet, "Jehovah" begins with an 'I'."


Oh dear.


Oh, *idiot*! In Latin Jehovah begins with an "I"!
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Shameless wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
So for them "In God we Trust" was meant to be the generic "God".


Yes, and "All men are created equal" for them might have been meant to be "all people". Women were still denied the vote, and today we understand that it's not a great idea to say "mankind" when we mean "humankind".

I'm suggesting an experiment that would move past this centuries-old approach. When you refer to a deity, try calling it by its proper name. Even if you mean "The Godhead" or "The Collective Unconscious."


I'll play along....

but I swear, if you're one of those people who refuse to call 'history' history and instead want to call it herstory, I WILL crawl through the internwebz and give you a noogie.



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Shameless wrote:
This was inspired by the "In God We Trust" thread.

"God" means different things to different people, but I suspect this statement will not be controversial: "god" not a name.

Most people in these parts, when they say "god" (or "God") actually mean "Yaweh". To say "god" when you mean "Yaweh" is disrespectful to thousands and thousands of other gods, just as referring to "humanity" as "mankind" is disrespectful to women.

I suggest an experiment: try showing respect to all gods (including your own) by referring to them by their proper names.

A few examples:
In Yaweh we trust
One nation under Yaweh
"Act of Yaweh"


Couldn't "god" just be considered a title then, much like "king"? Saying "I trust in king" wouldn't generally be seen as disrespectful to the kings of other kingdoms, although it may offend native english speakers.

Crisis averted.
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Shameless wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
So for them "In God we Trust" was meant to be the generic "God".


Yes, and "All men are created equal" for them might have been meant to be "all people". Women were still denied the vote, and today we understand that it's not a great idea to say "mankind" when we mean "humankind".

I'm suggesting an experiment that would move past this centuries-old approach. When you refer to a deity, try calling it by its proper name. Even if you mean "The Godhead" or "The Collective Unconscious."


Except I find these kinds of things to be divisive rather than helpful. Including by the way making any kind of issue about the word "mankind". I am a woman and I find the word "mankind" to be perfectly acceptable. I find humanity to also be acceptable or even humankind. But I really just don't get all wound up about "man" being the generic.

It isn't offensive. The proper definition of "man" includes the use of it as a generic for humanity. That isn't disrespectful to women.

All men were created equal didn't mean universal suffrage. Originally less than 15% of the population could vote. Even white men couldn't vote unless they met land and taxation requirements. This was true until around 1850. And black men were still excluded. Equal in the eyes of God didn't mean equal in governmental standing. A failing of our founders to be sure. But not one that was caused by the use of man to mean humanity, because lots of "white males" were not included.

This is one of those cases were I think by implying people should be offended by word choices it can create dissension were there shouldn't be any. Not to mention usually there wasn't any before people started brewing these tempests in teapots. Did women deserve the right to vote? You bet they did. Was the word "mankind" really part of the reason they didn't get to vote? No it wasn't. As is proven by the reality that we achieved universal suffrage long before "humankind" became the relatively recent PC term of choice.
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What if my God's name is Beverly? It's actually a conglomerate of midichlorians, but what if?!
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By Crom! This is a great idea!
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Meerkat wrote:
And the founders of this country were well steeped in general Deism and abhorred the idea of religious persecution of all kinds. Which is why they put freedom of religion into the foundational structure of our constitution. The FIRST amendment. So for them "In God we Trust" was meant to be the generic "God".


My understanding was that the motto "In God we trust" had nothing to do with the founders of the US. Is that not correct?
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Meerkat wrote:

Well I have a problem with your premise. I don't think it is disrespectful to use the generic "God" to refer to whatever higher power people trust in.

And the founders of this country were well steeped in general Deism and abhorred the idea of religious persecution of all kinds. Which is why they put freedom of religion into the foundational structure of our constitution. The FIRST amendment. So for them "In God we Trust" was meant to be the generic "God". They were basically Mono-Theists in their deism and most of them considered some variation of Christianity to be the most accurate religion. But they were specifically NOT enshrining "Yaweh" by name as a Government endorsed default.

That some huge percentage of the people in the country would be Christians was expected. But they were intentionally leaving room for people who had other concepts of God to also be included in our "e pluribus unum" including trusting in which ever concept of God was in their hearts and minds.


That is literally the most false attribution to historical figures I have ever read in a BGG post. Congrats.
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Shameless wrote:
To say "god" when you mean "Yaweh" is disrespectful to thousands and thousands of other gods


Now, I could be mistaken here, but I think that's kind of the point
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Shameless wrote:
To say "god" when you mean "Yaweh" is disrespectful to thousands and thousands of other gods, just as referring to "humanity" as "mankind" is disrespectful to women.
Yeah, but huMANity is still biased. Nor can one use 'Person-kind', as this has the bias of 'son' (male connotation)., so what do we end up with?

Per-offspring-kind

PC enough for ya?

(NB. I wouldn't take this post particularly seriously if I were you.)
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"Man" used to mean a human person, it didn't refer to the sex of the person. Hence mankind, humanity, human etc.

Male was wer-man (like the wer in werewolf) and female was wif-man (like wife).
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Shameless wrote:
This was inspired by the "In God We Trust" thread.

"God" means different things to different people, but I suspect this statement will not be controversial: "god" not a name.

Most people in these parts, when they say "god" (or "God") actually mean "Yaweh". To say "god" when you mean "Yaweh" is disrespectful to thousands and thousands of other gods, just as referring to "humanity" as "mankind" is disrespectful to women.

I suggest an experiment: try showing respect to all gods (including your own) by referring to them by their proper names.

A few examples:
In Yaweh we trust
One nation under Yaweh
"Act of Yaweh"


I don't, I mean generic all-powerful being, God.

If I meant, Christian god, I would say so.

If I meant quite powerful but not all powerful (e.g. Thor) I would name them god-with-a-little-g.

Referring to HuMANity is probably just as bad (by which I mean, not at all), try homo-sapiens?
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Technically, the term is Yahweh elohim (with tons of accents, dageshes, and such). which means 'he who brings into existence the armies of heaven'.
 
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Meerkat wrote:
Well I have a problem with your premise. I don't think it is disrespectful to use the generic "God" to refer to whatever higher power people trust in.


No. The offenders don't get to determine what's 'offensive' or not. "God" excludes all but exclusive monotheists, a minority of this planet's population, and arguably even a minority of this country's, considering some of the sketchy gestures towards polytheism inherent in high-church Catholicism, etc. The phrase excludes atheists, alienates agnostics, and ignores polytheist Hindus and all flavors of Buddhism, Shinto, and neopaganism. It is not value neutral.

That little phrase was added to the money in 1864, after a protracted legal battle which required that the then Secretary of the Treasury, Salmon P. Chase,. actually submit a new Act of Congress before he could tack it on. It's not so recent vintage as the "under God" phrase in the pledge (which dates to the McCarthy witch-hunts in 1954), but I have little doubt that it, too, will one day be held to be unconstitutional and be stricken from our currency. Good riddance.

Quote:
And the founders of this country were well steeped in general Deism and abhorred the idea of religious persecution of all kinds. Which is why they put freedom of religion into the foundational structure of our constitution. The FIRST amendment. So for them "In God we Trust" was meant to be the generic "God". They were basically Mono-Theists in their deism and most of them considered some variation of Christianity to be the most accurate religion. But they were specifically NOT enshrining "Yaweh" by name as a Government endorsed default...


Sigh. Could we please put this myth to bed, at long last? They didn't put that phrase on the coins! They specifically rejected calls to add religious language to the Nation's charter:
"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom




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Emperador Carlos wrote:
Technically, the term is Yahweh elohim (with tons of accents, dageshes, and such). which means 'he who brings into existence the armies of heaven'.

LOL

Wow. Just wow. Was this post serious?
 
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whac3 wrote:
Emperador Carlos wrote:
Technically, the term is Yahweh elohim (with tons of accents, dageshes, and such). which means 'he who brings into existence the armies of heaven'.

LOL

Wow. Just wow. Was this post serious?


Seems to be. W.H. Propp apparently thinks that's a pretty close translation:
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=93eMm1X80vcC&oi=f...
cf:
https://sites.google.com/site/yahwehelohiym/yahweh/yhwh-of-t...
 
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potterama wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Emperador Carlos wrote:
Technically, the term is Yahweh elohim (with tons of accents, dageshes, and such). which means 'he who brings into existence the armies of heaven'.

LOL

Wow. Just wow. Was this post serious?


Seems to be. W.H. Propp apparently thinks that's a pretty close translation:
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=93eMm1X80vcC&oi=f...
cf:
https://sites.google.com/site/yahwehelohiym/yahweh/yhwh-of-t...

Then he needs to learn Hebrew.
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